[Master] - Improving Rare Titans

@BarryWuzHere, @Gryphonknight, @General_Confusion, @Brobb, I’d appreciate your thoughts on this idea if you have a minute. I really value your analysis and insight.

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This isn’t a math question; it is a game balance question.

When rare titans came out, this “chance” of a specific 4* mat dropped made them sound like a significant source of ascension mats being added to the game.

What I’ve seen in the single digit number of rare titans looks like ~1 4* bonus mat for one of 30 people in the alliance per titan on average. I haven’t collected data, and the event is rare enough that I could easily be off by a factor of 2 or 3.

That drop rate means that rare titans are mostly a tougher titan battle 'cuz it is fun to push yourself against a tougher titan, and an excuse to use up titan flasks, and learn to deal with a titan that slaughters your team in new and different ways than the old ones you are used to.

I figure I’ve gotten more total 4* mats from mystic vision than I have from rare titan bonus rolls.

Anyhow … that’s what the situation IS, as I see it.

If SG intended rare titans to be a significant source of 4* mats, they failed. If they intended to give us a tease about them but not provide much, while giving us a new challenge killing titans which were becoming old hat, they succeeded.

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Some of this was discussed on another thread, but over all I am :+1: with the idea improving the drop rates on rare titan bonus rolls, or their loot in general. This is just because right now they aren’t a game feature, but instead just a big disappointment. As I stated in the other thread, we just let them escape. It isn’t even worth the effort.

I do think that such increases SHOULDN’T be linearly based on the number of stars a titan has. I think on the low end, where they are still putting out a ton of effort, that isn’t enough reward. And at the high end it is too much. In fact I think the top alliances can kill a 12 star rare more easily than a fledgling alliance struggling with a 5 star regular could kill a 4 star rare.

Nor do I think that they should be guaranteed by loot tier, though weighting the odds that way would be fine.

Maybe something like this (strawman proposal)

[Edit - my formatting was lost when posting - first set of numbers is for the 4 star mats and second is for the 3 star, in case that wasn’t clear]

Number of Stars Number of 4* mats Number of same color 3 star
1-5 AM/10 (3) AM/5 (6)
6-9 AM/8 (4) AM/3 (10)
10-12 AM/6 (5) AM/2 (15)

Where AM = number of people in the alliance, and the number in () is the number that should happen with a 30 player alliance.

And the odds of getting one is based on grades (roll per AM, determine what grade gets them and then who - once you get one you can’t get a second):

A to A+: 40%
B: 30%
C: 20%
D:10%

All the above is for the bonus roll only. The other rolls are per normal.

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I’m sorry that I only had the chance to photo the last slide of the loot. The previous loot was absolutely nothing. I spent so many materials and 4 flask to make that damage. on 9* tiger titan(Which was very hard to kill) and the loot was this… (I’m the A+ attacker)

The Rare titan loot should be increased… No one from the alliance got the rings, nor some good loot…

I think this is accurate for me too.

As a general principle, I prefer being rewarded more often on average for effort than sheer randomness. To me that’s an indication that the current drop rate for rare titans is broken.

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Linking for reference:

Do they have an advanced linker badge? If so you should either have it, or be getting it soon!

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lol probably not…but I have thought about writing a guide to using the forum search.

The problem is I know no one who needs the guide will ever find it. :laughing:

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lol…now that is both funny and sadly true.

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That sounds pretty cool… There’s issues I could foresee… So might need a little tweeking, Ive got to mull over how to word some of them without seemingly attackimg people… So bear with me as I mull it over and I’ll post my 2 cents worth as it were.

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Take whatever time you need. SG usually isn’t super-fast about responding to ideas.

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@BarryWuzHere Thanks! I really appreciate your thoughts on the subject.

That’s an interesting question. I’m not sure what they really intended. In general, I’ve been less concerned with what their conception of a rare titan was than with the net effect on the game and its players of rare titains as they’re realized.

I agree with you that the challenge is fun. And I genuinely appreciate that. But it seems like they either need to strip the “bonus chance at rare AM” tag entirely, and just make it a pure challenge fight, or fix the loot rolls. At this point, it’s neither fish nor fowl.

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Thank you for the thoughts! Your point about the scaling with stars is well taken, although I’d say that strong alliances need more rare AM than lower level alliances, because 100% of their focus is on 5* heros.

Upthread, @Zephyr1 was expressing some concern that loot tiering fore the 3*/4* AM would openly encourage naked flasking and a no-holds-barred rush for high placing. He’s probably better that I am at expressing that concern.

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I think if you are struggling on regulars then everyone is kind of going to be going uhhh…something out to kill the titan anyway. But that is part of the reason I gave it % chances rather than saying A+ and A get them all. They could fall anywhere, just better odds for those that put more damage in. But a flat rate everywhere works too.

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Also upthread I clarified that my thought on the guaranteed loot was because @Garanwyn had suggested decreasing frequency to balance better loot drops.

If the frequency of rare titans is decently often (like now), then I think % chances are fine — they just need to be radically increased from the current “not even worth it” drop rate.

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Sure, but my explanation didn’t manage to include “naked flasking.” :face_with_monocle:

But yes, my concern was about players on the margins. If loot chances become radically better by moving up one slot to achieve the next tier, friendly competition may not always be so friendly.

When flasking can be used to manipulate that, I become more concerned about behaviors like this:

Yes, but isn’t that the alliance leaders job to curb? I just stopped hitting our current titan for a while because I have put in about 100K more than the next person, its over half way dead and there are a number of people who haven’t had a chance to hit yet. As they get home from work they will put their shots in.

That’s the way we roll. I would guess other alliances actually like it and encourage a more “pack of hungry dogs and one soup bone” strategy. (thought that was a better analogy than “pack of horny dogs and one leg”, but choose whichever you like best).

And the members can find the alliances that align better to their sensibilities.

In a well-organized alliance, yes.

If it’s by choice, I think that’s totally fine.

My concern is incentivizing it as the default behavior for alliances, since most aren’t organized enough or curated enough in member selection to avoid a few players essentially making that choice for the alliance.

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It is a tease now. There’s some chance, but it is obviously very small.

And honestly, my take on this “problem” is that SG is generally very careful and aware of how many chances they provide to get ascension mats, both 3* and 4*. (I’d note that they fairly harshly closed loopholes in how titan chests and titan loot were awarded that gave significant advantages to mercs many months ago.)

So I’m going to assume that SG didn’t mean it to be a significant source, and it isn’t a significant source, and that ■■■■■■■■ about it may be briefly fun, but isn’t productive.

Just like ■■■■■■■■ about my 75 Atlantis summons yielding ONE legendary hero, and that one was a duplicate of the first legendary hero I ever got. (Delilah), and not one of the blue or purple heroes my roster really needed (Damn you, Kageburado!), nor a copy of the current HotM who I would very much like to have before she’s gone even though I don’t have darts for her. Out of 75, I also got two copies of a hero I didn’t have before and wanted: Proteus, and extra copies of 2-3 more 4* heroes that I probably should eat, but will hoard for a while; my hero hoarding habit continues. At least I’ve got a purple hero to feed all those purple trainers I was keeping so I can clear that space too.

Yes, I’m disappointed. And yes, I had noticably worse results than the odds. But the game is structured that this kind of luck can and will happen. And I’ll grumble a little, then move on. I won’t ask SG to change it or compensate me. I won’t ragequit.

(Moderators, this is just a timely example; please don’t move this reply to the ridiculous complaints topic! :rofl:)

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I disagree with that idea.

Current titan loot is distributed such that the difference between loot grades is normally microscopic.

If your titan is one of those sizes where some grades bump you into Tier IX (3 mat rolls) or Tier XIV or XV (I keep forgetting which one gets you4 mat rolls) , the difference is small instead of microscopic.

Or if you really don’t belong in that alliance hitting that size titans, and you get a D grade, there is a significant dropoff there.

This makes titan killing a team project. You can still be a lone big bad wolf doing a titan kill for your alliance … but the loot improvement is so small that all you really get for it is bragging rights. (Consider how many people still chat about how A / A+ loot is “jinxed” I don’t believe it is true … but neither is the opposite … the difference is so small that it is hard to measure.)

I think that’s the way titan killing incentives SHOULD work.

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