Mana Class Talent and Costume Mana Bonus DO Work in Defense - Staff Response Post #90

Nothing about family mana bonus has been confirmed by SG yet. So as of right now it’s all speculations. I have asked Petri tho, hoping he would give a statement about it, too:

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I guess many parts of the mechanics are not officially documented :

  • 20% boost of Attack stat on defending heroes

  • 20% boost of defense stat on defending heroes

  • % gain of mana every turn by defending heroes

  • defending heroes gain % mana on every tile hits

  • crit stat doesn’t apply to attacking heroes’ special only applied to attacking tiles

  • crit stat applies to defending heroes’ slashes

Etc etc.

That was what I was trying to say. Thanks for narrowing it down. Again, there are some information NOT obtained from Small Giant, but from the players who painstakingly gathered data after several months or years of grinding.

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901-Monty-Python-and-the-Holy-Grail-quotes

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I am replying to my angry :rage: face post cause after reading everything I was very frustrated to learn that Costume Bonus or mana from talents was not working… since posting this reply I went to test in Raids and found out that Costume Bonus or Mana Class bonus IS working for Rigard!

I have yet to test 5*s but this gives me hope that we were NOT DECEIVED!

EDIT: Above is first minute. (Didn’t know it would only post 1 min) Below is second part.

In the above video you will see no tiles touch Greg or Rigard.

You will see Rigard Fires - FIRST

When looking at the team I found both Greg & Rigard had same % mana troops.

Then when calculating Greg’s stats. I found that his Mana Class was NOT selected.

I found trying to calculate Rigard’s path a bit more challenging so I decided to just acknowledge that either or if not both are working.

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In an effort to provide some much-needed clarification quickly, I mistakenly commented that mana Class Talent and Costume Bonus don’t work in defense, and that only the bonus from Troops counts, this is incorrect.

I realize this created a great deal of confusion and that, obviously, was not our intention.

My apologies for this incorrect information, we have now investigated this issue with the QA team. We can confirm that Costume & Emblem Mana Bonuses apply for the defense team as well, and that is intended.

For illustration purposes, please see this example below with a Quintus defense team:

  1. Defense & attack teams used:


  1. Same defense team order, 1 turn of passive mana gain (no tiles used, just skipping attack teams turn, attack team mirror of the defense team):

  1. After 9 turns of passive mana gain (no tiles used, just skipping attack teams turns):

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I’m guessing there’s a mistake in there @Petri :rofl:

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Edited. :sweat_smile:

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Thanks a lot for the clarification, Petri! :slight_smile:

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What does this show us? I can’t measure the bars under them to compare it to make sure they are different.
Show us more turns where the costume version gets charged before the non costume version with the same troop

I am guessing that the setup has the following mana boosts:

Quintus 1 (left) = no mana boost
Quintus 2 = costume bonus boost (+5%)
Quintus 3 = class talent boost (+4%)
Quintus 4 = costume bonus & class talent (+9%)
Quintus 5 = costume & class & troop (+24%)

So in theory at the + 9 turn skips we should see the following rank of mana quantity:
1 - Quintus 5 (Right Wing)
2 - Quintus 4
3 - Quintus 2
4 - Quintus 3
5 - Quintus 1 (Left Wing)

Eyeballing the mana bars (if someone can pixel count for confirmation) I make the following observations:

  1. Quintus 5 (right wing) definitely has the most mana - EXPECTED

  2. Quintus 1 (left wing) has the LEAST mana - EXPECTED.

  3. Quintus 2, 3 & 4 have very similar mana quantities - EXPECTED.

  4. Quintus 4 Looks to have more mana than 2 or 3 - EXPECTED.

@Checker; does that help any?

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Spot on and confirmed. :slight_smile: See picture below:

The remaining mana-bar from center Quintus (pink) was used as reference. Quintus 2 and 3 are very very close:

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It shows us that even with mana boosts, after 9 turns a slow hero in defense is still just sitting there waitin for more turns to fire lol

yes i know tiles weren’t involved which would have gave them more mana, don’t crap on my joke

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Well the good thing to know is that at least in 11 or 12 turns they are ready to go!

:sunglasses:

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Is there a bug when costume is applied that this problem occurs? It seems like the initial study showed a costumed Joon +19 with L23 mana troops was charging at the same speed as Vela +19 with level 23 mana troops.

It’s nuanced and subtle I know but long term players have invested a lot of resources to get a 2-9% mana boost on heroes and diligence would be checking, well, more than just Quintus.

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Hello @Petri,

Thank you for the clarification.

Maybe this could be the opportunity for you to actually explain how mana generation is coded in attack and in defense in the game. So that players can properly anticipate the number of tile they can throw at an ennemy before he charges up. I think in attack this subject as been well clarified (by the community, not by SG) but in defense, from what i read in the forum, there were still some weird situations where heroes that should be charging up their mana bar did not (one tile short).

Like in every sports where it’s up to federations to set up the rules of a sport, it is SG’s job to clarify this kind of topic, the why and the how, not up to the community to crawl for informations and build maths models (like for damage calculations) to try to understand the rules of this game.

Thank you in advance.

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There is a slight difference in the name bars of the 5 Quintus’ that would probably be more evident with tiles being used. The bigger thing I’m seeing from this is that it isn’t a very big difference at all. It’s not significant enough to matter, in other words, not like it is on offense, where we can simply count the number of tiles used. A slow mana hero would show the biggest difference because the scale is larger. I’d love to see this same test setup ran with an average mana and fast mana hero, more specifically the heros in question like Joon, Vela, Ursena, etc.

@Petri it would be very comforting to the player base and community if you guys could also run this setup with at least a couple of those heros and share it, even if it’s really hard to see a difference in the mana bars. Thank you for responding to this situation so quickly, too. :slight_smile:

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Quintussentially working :wink:

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Thanks to everyone who took the time to double check SGG’s work.

it would be helpful from a tactical standpoint to have mana represented as a percentage (Hold down menu) for both offense and defense. And avoid all this pixel counting nonsense.

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I couldn’t agree more with this sentiment. Release the information for mana regeneration if only to alllow the community to independently verify the information being presented. Otherwise it’s just a couple of pictures of Quintus.

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