Lowering of defense

I have a question that I have always asked myself and we discussed in alliance … on the titan or on the hero the lowering of generic and elemental defense add up but does this sum have a maximum limit? … if yes … how much? … and in this case what is better to start first … the generic or elemental? … thanks

Start first with the one who deals less damage.
Isarnia before King Arthur for example.

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thank you very much … so there is no “effective” limit to the lowering of defense

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There is a limit…
you can add up normal defense down + elemental defense down
But you can apply only one time normal defense down and one time elemental…
as those overwrite each other…

Example: Grimm does -34 % normal defense down
Firing 2 Grimms after each other means only one time 34 % are applied, not 68%

Hope this helps

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That won’t be optimal every time. For example Gormek should definitely be fired before C Marjanna as that will greatly boost her already high damage, but C Marjanna followed by Gormek will not result in a big increase of his low damage. You need to look at the total damage being done by both heroes. If in doubt try recording videos with both permutations and count up the overall damage done

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ok but given the new heroes who lower the generic much more than the standard ones … example a Bobo who lowers the generic by 60% added to a Frida / Arthur 54% … these 2 debuffs add up to what? … 114 % or is there a limit that you cannot go beyond?

The only limit is for some heroes who can keep increasing the debuff, e.g. Athena and C Brienne. They have a limit (that is often not detailed in the card).

However for combinations of heroes there is no limit other the implicit one in finding the best debuffers in class.

Also, the debuffs do not stack as simply as that - it should really happen sequentally, e.g. 60% debuff = 0.4 defense (1 * .4), the 56% debuff on top of that (0.4 * .44) leaves you with 0.176 of the original. However, I am not sure it happens exactly that way - I suspect it doesn’t, as the end damage output doesn’t align with this. But it should still happen sequentially rather than being applied on the original defense figure.

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Thanks for that. :slightly_smiling_face:

I think it happens like that, but there is some soft cap.

I tried that some time ago with Frieda and grimm/isa/Athena.
It definitely starts like that but somewhere around 70% total def down the increased damage starts to slow down.

So at the beginning the damage increase is really high and for grimm to isa there is an expected increase but from isa to Athena (max def down) the damage increase is much lower than someone could expect. The damage is still higher, but it doesn’t rise that much anymore.

So it’s still useful to aim for maximum defense down, but if there are two similar def downs at the very high end, a few % doesn’t really matter anymore and other things like secondary buffs or just higher stats become more useful and should maybe decide which hero to use.

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