That’s stupid. If they’re gonna do that, then you shouldn’t be allowed to buy anything on the internet.
You know who is responsible for protecting people from themselves? Themselves? That’s NOT what a government should be tasked with doing…
That’s a simplistic world view, I think.
Gambling addiction is generally considered a disease. Is it believed that Not all individuals have the same susceptibility to this disease - like alcoholism.
I don’t know that I would expect it to be impossible for loot boxes to exist, but i would expect that itll be more like visiting a casino. There’ll be gambling warnings, there will be limited licenses for these slot machines, and a portion of the slots will go to proceeds will go to federal govt.
Maybe time will prove me wrong. But I hope this occurs.
Interestingly, the same seems to be true for monkeys (varying susceptibility). Unlike governments, that all seem to share a never ending adiction for taxpayers money 
Anyway, closer to the topic, it is a fine line between gaming and gambling (a few years back a online gaming was made illegal in Greece for a period due to the law makers having a hard time understandign the difference… or so I’ve heard). Or, to be more precise, when real money is involved that line can become rather thin., and the loot boxes - or imho the type of sales that SG has in the store - is gambling.
As long as it is directly paid with money.
Why this distinction? shouldn’t the same be applied to the ingame currency (jewels)? If you extend it, then all gaming becomes gambling as long as there is a random outcome of and ingame transaction. Which has a broader scope. But who knows…
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There was a time, not too long ago, where premium in game currency didn’t exist… going back there is possible…
So, that’s kinda my hope 
“Who knows” is 100% spot on today. It’s all speculation. Man. I’ve still gotta read that Belgium OP article haha.
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I don’t think the government should be regulating something heavily, just because it might be bad for you. We go down a very slippery slope. People should be responsible for treating their own diseases and governments have proven historically terrible at it.
Caffeine is highly addictive and not very good for you. Should we treat ice tea and soda like alcohol or marijuana?
Casinos and actual gambling need to be regulated because the payout is actual money and it attracts all sorts of other criminal behavior (money laundering, organized crime, theft, assault, etc) that a game like this does not, as there is no cashing out.
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I don’t know how many of you know addicts, but legislation to protect them from accessing their addiction of choice is useless.
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I am not sure how the in game collectable gems make it it ‘not’ gambling.
You get some free gems , and you can buy more gems with $$, all of which you ‘spend’ on rolls to get something back, with unknown odds
Join a roulette site for example, you will get regular free spins , and you can buy more spins with $$, all of which you can use to get something back - with known odds.
Not much practical difference
May be helpful:
following along
If cola is found to be carcinogenic it will carry the appropriate warnings and over time it may go the way of cigarettes due to public health concerns.
You can agree or disagree, but it’s probably in the offing already. Once a link is established it’s a one way street if Pepsi or Coke can’t bury the evidence
From the OP I finally read:
“Paying loot boxes are not an innocent part of video games that present themselves as games of skill,” Gaming Commission Director Peter Naessens added in a statement. “Players are tempted and misled, and none of the protective measures for gambling are applied.”
…
This to me is at the root of it. Players are actively tempted. They don’t have to go anywhere or do anything. Just pull out your phone and your slot machine is right there… this is a dangerous platform. Not just for those predisposed to that disease.
And developers are incentivized to make the most appealing slot machines with no shut off valve and as accessible as possible.
It’s not really all that relevant if loot boxes in other games and hero summons in this game are the same. It’s both gambling and if you let game company lawyers look at it they’ll say it’s both neither. Whatever. What’s actually relevant here is the scope of the “game of chance”, and whether that’s a potentially damaging scope to individual players or not.
The possible harm is much greater if the “game of chance” results in prizes which can be sold for good cash on an in-game or grey market. That fortunately is not the case for hero summons. The spotlight currently is mostly on those kind of loot boxes, where there’s a real money market for the jackpot items. E&P is certainly not in this category.
The possible harm is also much greater if the “game of chance” can be easily repeated over and over and has very poor odds at the desirable prizes. Yet concious and/or unconcious mechanisms are built into the game to promote further “chance grabs”. Meaning players with lack of self control could find themselves in a situation where they spend much, much more than they meant to. Such a scope also applies to hero summons in this game to some limited extent. You can find examples of players spending hundreds to upwards of 2.000 $ on summons and still not being satisfied with the few 5star heroes that got them. That may sound like a lot, but there are also examples of other games where players spent upwards 100.000 $s. Now -that- is a lot that could harm just about anyone but the filthy rich. There is possible harm here for people that are actually jobless/poor, and possible harm for children/students. But I don’t easily see someone with a well paid full time job losing their house over E&P. So limited scope here as well.
Needless to say whatever anyone spends on a game (of chance) is primarily those individual’s responsibility. However, the way this game is operated, the way the players are seduced consciously and/or subconsciously to spend money, that also places some responsibility at the game company. At least that’s what I think. A responsibility to protect certain vulnerable categories of players against themselves.
The near future will gradually see even more pressure on the games market to deal with the responsibility to protect vulnerable categories of players against “games of chance”. And in lack of action by gaming companies, also actual measures. Things have fared without control for too long, and some bad actors have taken it too far with their loot boxes for items that can be sold for real money. The spotlight is now on.
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Please do not make assumptions about my mindset or my experiences as I have made none about you and yours.
It’s none of your ****** business, but i have had multiple family members have to deal with alcohol addiction throughout the course of my life as well as gambling problems. i am well versed in this. We have been fortunate not to have anyone die directly because of it, but my uncle recently died at 56 partially related to his cocaine use in his 20s triggering lots of long term health issues.
I myself have a personality prone to gambling addiction and have spent thousands of hours in the past playing poker both in casinos and online.
Given that, i still don’t feel it’s the govnerments job to intrude much on people’s lives. I don’t believe in a nanny state where people need to be protected from everything. informed yes, protected? in some cases. But governments are terrible at this AND are prone to use this to further regulate things that don’t need it (see recent legislation attempts at requiring licensure for gym trainers, see needing a license to cut hair, etc) and tax people with excess fees and licensing and further infringe on liberties.
People can use all sorts of items and behaviors to harm themselves, but that doesn’t mean they should be illegal or highly regulated. if that were the case, we should both outlaw drinking alcohol and driving cars (and i mean cars in general not tied to alcohol) as both cause more harm (injury and death) than almost anything else.
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I have earned and bought gems many times, when buying I was buying something that was guaranteed. In the beginning, I spun the wheel of heroes. I got something, guaranteed, from that spin, a 3, 4 or 5* hero or 3 or 4* troop. Now, I wasn’t always happy with that outcome, but I wasn’t surprised at the outcome, it was as advertized.
Then I got enough heroes where spinning the wheel of heroes has become less valuable, so I use them on:
- Guaranteed offers where I know exactly what I get
- Speeding up chests - guaranteed
- Speeding up a building - guranteed
I think SGG is likely able to side step this type of legislation using this mechanism (gems are assured), as they would say that nowhere is there no guarantee of something in return for those gems, and it is CLEARLY labeled (though sometimes easy to miss if you aren’t paying attention).
I think they are smart to use the words ‘guarantee’ and ‘will contain at least x of these’ or ‘will contain all of these’ so that if they ever do get investigated they can show a prudent person knows exactly what they are getting.
I dunno, just my .01.
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It really depends on how broadly the statues are phrased.
For example, in my current but soon not to be current state (Illinois), gambling is defined as
Sec. 28-1. Gambling.(a) A person commits gambling when he or she:
(1) knowingly plays a game of chance or skill for money or other thing of value, unless excepted in subsection (b) of this Section;
This is so broadly construed, almost anything could be considered gambling. There are some exceptions listed further down in the statute to elmininate things like carnival games, etc. but including games of chance OR skill is one of the broader descriptions of gambling.
I just don’t understand why this loot box stuff is all of sudden the bad guy, when you can easily take a credit card down to the local mini mart and purchase instant scratch-off lottery tickets until all your cards are maxed out. I also fail to see how these loot box style purchases are bad when you have official lottery mobile apps like so (http://www.illinoislottery.com/en-us/mobile-app-dl.touch.html ) where you can again load up credit cards into it and purchase as many daily lotto tickets until you’re maxed out.
What I can see as something that would be beneficial is requiring the apps to have a “lock my daily/weekly spending” setting that can only be unset after a period of time, similar to how online poker sites have daily and weekly deposit limits.
That was long coming. I guess such laws will hit EU in the next 10 years or less.
Some of the offers are pure gambling - you know what you might get, but you don’t know the odds. I think it is a nice thing to do - some form of customer protection. Scratch cards specifically say on the back, what are the odds of winning, and how many and what rewards could be found.
Recently, similar laws were implemented in China, and gaming giants like League of Legends from RIOT games, were forced to publish what are the chances of getting specific loot from their loot boxes in-game, despite those being purchased with the game’s virtual currency.
Hopefully SG and similar gaming companies will be forced to become more transperant on their loot boxes
After all that you have witnessed in your life as you say, how can you not think that these addicts need to be protected from themselves in some way shape or form?
I myself am not a addict but have seen my life affected by addicts. I work a regular 40 hour a week job Mon-Thurs 10.5 hours a day and on my offtime i probably spend 20ish hours a week at a local homeless shelter helping mostly addicts with day to day recovery among a variety of other issues they have while in recovery. If you as you stated have been affected by addicts you know yourself it physically/mentally changes a individuals brain and how they think and interact on society and it is our job as a human being to help these individuals be it with laws or other means instead of letting them cope with it themselves.
Sorry to jump on you like i did and for that i will apologize, but far to many folks like to write off addicts or mentally deficient as a plague on society and that sets me off quick as you seen.
I would be in favor of something like voluntary spending/deposit limits in the app to help protect them from themselves. But to limit a behavior for the entirety of the population who can use said product or engage in said behavior in a non-harmful way, because a small subset has an issue with it, the solution is not to wipe out access to the product or behavior for everyone, but come up with limits (like the voluntary spending/deposit limits in app) for addict who want to help themselves. For people who can’t or don’t want to help themselves, there’s very little you can do to stop them except to totally outlaw said access, which again, I’m not in favor of. The world is not a foam helmet and at a certain point, people who want or need to harm themselves are going to do so. The treatment is not take away the manner they do so, but treat the underlying drivers. For addictions, finding a way to recognize triggers and deal with it. If it’s not a mobile game purchase, it’s going to be instant lotto scratch offs, or sports betting at the local bookie…
I’m not a big fan of completely outlawing things simply because a small group misuses said product or behavior. We have very minor limitations on this type of thing for most products or behaviors that are far more destructive - i.e. you only have to be 16/18/21 to purchase alcohol, only have to be 16/18 to purchase tobacco, if you have a pulse you can get a driver’s license, etc.
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The key point is value. Now, anything that people are willing to pay money for may be argued as something of value, but how much is it worth?
The angle in this thread is whether it is gambling, but the repercussions are broader - if it has value, then it is gambling. But if it has value, then if you gain those items of value whether through normal gaming or otherwise, then it should be considered income. Get the tax man 
OF course that the main counterargument - for gambling or taxes - is that despite any personal value attached, as it has no liquidity - cannot be traded or converted into fiat money - then it has no commercial value. And threrefore it is not gambling.
Feel free to continue discussions on this topic here: