Logic behind Guin's Special and Recent Change in Perfect Riposte


Come on man, I do have Guin lol. I agree the problem with Guin case may not exist, but so had the problem with Perfect Riposte been until recently. If the Perfect Riposte gotta be illogical to make the mechanics work, then I’d like to challenge the logic behind Guin’s special (I’m not an IT guy as well).


I see at least 10 nerf Guinevere threads per week. That is because she is a fair and balanced hero. Of course top players wouldn’t band together in outcry about how fair heroes like her, Gravemaker and Alberich are, after all they collectively spent piles and piles of money to possess these digital pixels which are completely fair and balanced. Move along, nothing to see here.


The Perfect Riposte argument focused on the hero’s minimum HP. The Guin Special argument focused on the hero’s maximum mana. If the HP confinement is not applied, why would the mana confinement be?

It’s just a thought though. I’m not an IT guy. :slight_smile:


I don’t suggest nerfing Guin as well. She’s powerful the way she is, but the way the system works makes her this way.

I kinda want my heroes to go off right after their mana is full rather than having to wait for Guin to draw 20%. And if you notice, that’s the case when you fight AI right?


That is not the case. She needs a nerf. It’s okay to have an opinion that goes against these players that collectively spent hundreds of thousands on that card.

What you are describing is a nerf. She needs a nerf. It’s a popular topic.


If we’re talking Riposte, it’s a question of guessing how magic works. It’s not the hero that attacks back, it’s a magical effect that reflects and amplifies the power of the attackers own blow. Thought of like that, it is perfectly reasonable that the reflected damage occurs even though the blow kills the defender.


So they’re changing it back to this “Cyprian has 22 health left, he gets hit with a yellow tile for 100 damage and instead of 25 damage (115% of damage received) he does 115 damage even though he only actually received 22 damage”? Terrible idea. It should have never worked that way to begin with.


No, I think they’re just reverting it to doing 25 damage. Right now he does zero in this situation.


Oh. I haven’t used him recently. That’s pretty bad too, you shouldn’t be able to bypass Riposte with a hard sniper, that’s dumb.


Exactly, riposte needs to hit back for the full amount of the incoming damage . If lianna hits for 800, 800 should get reflected back (or whatever the % is).


The problem of gin is not gin, I have killed it many times, the problem is that its union with others imbalances and interferes with the development of other heroes. Whether you like it or not, you will have to be nerfeated or the game will collapse.


Did it used to be like that before they made the adjustment? I used to use Boril for a while but didn’t notice much to be honest.


What did it use to be before the change? I used to use Boril for a while but didn’t notice much.


I know this could open a can of worm lol, but creating another line to store extra mana wouldn’t be too bad. Or as soon as your hero’s mana is overmaxed, he/she can go off right away…


What you said kinda reminds me of some character in X-men. There’s a guy that can absorb power from the enemy and strike back. That would take time right? So if he got killed before that, he wouldn’t be able to counter; this is exactly what Petri said in one of the previous posts.

Even if the Perfect Riposte works like a mirror, it does take time for the light to reflect as well and not immediately. It’s just that it would happen too fast our naked eyes can’t see.


You probably already fought Hel. She stops mana generation, but if your guy’s mana has already maxed at the time she hits him/her, your hero can still go off after.

Hel stops mana, Guin only reduces mana, yet Guin can stop your guy from firing at maxed or ‘overmaxed’ mana. I should have brought up Hel instead of Perfect Riposte. Better analogy.


Trying to have a serious discussion about the physics of magic is genuinely impossible. Magic breaks all the rules, so what’s important is that magic be internally consistent, not that it be plausible under the physical laws that govern our universe. From a practical point of view, riposte is a fairly weak skill, so making it worse is taking game balance in the wrong direction. Every riposte hero could use a buff!

Originally riposte hit back the HP loss calculated from the attack. They downgraded that (sensibly, I think) a few months ago so that the damage was limited to the remaining health of the hero. If a hero has 25 HP left and Lianna hits for 1,200, the reflect-back is capped at 25*1.15. With this change, they bizarrely capped the reflect at the remaining health of the hero (rather than the damage dealt) and removed any damage at all if the hero died from the initial strike. The first part is clearly wrong. The second part is defensible but a departure from the “settled law” of how riposte works.


Yes, it would be too bad. :sweat_smile: You’re trying to find a weird new mechanics why? Just so you could fire your heroes more often? You are aware this would also apply to enemy heroes…? It would affect and/or break so many things…There’s your can of worms - a gameplay totaly fucked up and a shitload of rebalancing having to be done. Just… Why?! :smile:


1: That analogy is as bad as the previous one. :wink: Firstly, there’s no ‘overmaxing’ being done. You’re either at max, or not. You cannot be more than maxed. You already got the bucket of water analogy - there’s a good analogy! :slight_smile:

2: Hel stops mana generation, and/but if your hero’s already maxed, they can obviously fire, because… They’re full. You can’t say Guin ‘only’ reduce mana - she indeed reduces mana, and when she takes mana away, your hero isn’t maxed anymore, and therefore can’t fire.


Guess I’ll stop being idealistic and start enjoying the fantasy Small Giants created.

Thanks for your intellectual opinion. :smiley: