Little defence about nerfing heroes

Ferant, Azmi, C Krampus, now Kalo - so many people shout things like “this hero is now worthless”, “you scammed people”, “it now belongs to trash”. But in defence of these heroes, let’s think different way.

Let’s take Kalo as example, because it’s most recent nerf:
If Kalo would be released TODAY with stats he have today, being Very Slow, etc., are you actually, 100%, no doubts sure you WOULDN’T want to pull this hero and max him? You wouldn’t limit broke him and give emblems? He’s still very unique hero that have special we never saw before and saying he’s unplayable only because you saw him in slightly better state is unfair.

The problem with nerfed heroes are we actually SAW them in more OP version, we had CHANCE to use them/play against them so people feel robbed of it. But in reality, we should think about current stats as the only possible stats available and considering usefullness of hero based on how it currently IS rather than how strong it WAS back in future.

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Yea all they did was make him less OP. Not like they changed what he does completely.

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I feel like this runs counter to your point because this is exactly what outrages people when a nerf is announced.

They are looking at the then current stats and comparing to the proposed new stats and are not happy about the change.

And in fact, the very announcement of a nerf suggests that the current stats are not in fact “the only possible stats.”

Having been here for 3 years now, I have seen a marked increase inthe number of nerfs and believe this to be due to SG trying to rush new heroes rather than thoughtfully designing heroes that fit in the game without breaking it.

This problem is exacerbated by the fact that once a hero is nerfed, they will never be made whole again after the reason they needed to be nerfed in the first place is long gone. Especially if new heroes are release with very similar abilities to the original versions of nerfed heroes as this just rubs salt in those wounds.

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I for one am. Though that is more because I expect a future nerf and because I am opposed to stone skin as implemented. 1 hit as Peñolite and Gaillard had initially was okay. More than that, I find unacceptable. Black Knight has a similar ability but at least it is a part of his special skill. For a hero to do the same passively, especially for 5 hits as Kalø now does, is not something I will support.

This is also why I skipped this portal in the first place.

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You get me wrong, my point is to take new stats, pretend old ones NEVER existed and judge hero depending on how he is on it’s current state, THEN decide if you wasted materials.

Heroes like Kalo or Ferant are unique and strong even after nerf and, in my own personal opinion, the answer should be “yes, this is good hero, I’m glad I have him” instead of “he is worse than 3* heroes, it’s trash because I saw him pre-nerf and it was better” (this is actually kind of quote, I saw on one of the complains that Kalo after nerf is weaker than 2* heroes, seriously).

But I’m looking at this from the other side. Looking at the current state before the nerf is live but after it is announced. The very fact that one can be in that situation knocks down the pillar your argument rests on about looking at the current state (after the nerf) and evaluating solely based on those as the only possible stats. In fact, Telluria is a case to consider here as the ones who may have still foubd her acceptable after nerf #1 may not have done so after nerf #2. And evaluating based on the post-nerf #1 state would not have painted an accurate picture.

In that case the issue was Telluria became a hero many would not have invested resources in had she been released as she is now. And until Kalø reaches his final state, which I am dubious that he has, he cannot properly be evaluated in that way. And looking at his now current state is not necessarily indicative of his future state.

This constant nerfing erodes trust. How can we possibly be expected to summon if the current state (at release) is not necessarily the state of the hero a few months or even weeks down the line?

Judging on the current state is all well and good, but when summoning, you don’t get the choice of deciding based on the post-nerf state. You can only judge on the release-state (which at the time of summoning is current).

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You have good point as well. So it all depends of personal limits.
But once again, my point is that AFTER NERF hero should be rated from perspective of player who never had this hero, never heard of previous verion and had no ocassion to use it, and not based on its pre-nerf stats and comparitions.

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If you are talking about Stone Skin, I highly doubt that Kalo will have 5 turns SS during Rush - according to devs Stone Skin lenght is based on mana speed and if it isn’t hard coded but live-checking by function, it should automatically decrease it to 1 when game notice hero is currently Very Fast. But we cannot be sure until at least one Rush Tournament happens, we still didn’t have single one since Gargoyle event.

Actually, to summarize, the issue to me is not whether nerfed heroes are still good or not after the nerf. To me, this is actually completely irrelevant.

The key issue is that players are not provided the opportunity to make properly informed decisions about where they summon if the final state of a hero is uncertain. This is what is attacked by any nerf.

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I would too, except this was specifically asked in beta and we were told they would keep original durations. This is most definitely concerning for Kalø but also other Gargoyles.

Of course, this will inevitably be cleared up one way or another over the weekend.

Depends on what they were thinking saying this, because this could as well means that current system handle this and there is no need to changing it manually. We will see.

I think this issue could be fixed by simple information on new heroes’ cards saying something like

for idk, one month?

One month is probably not long enough (see how many months it took before Telluria was nerfed for example), but such a disclaimer in the portal and on each card would be a step I support.

Preferably visible at all times when summoning and not hidden with the odds.

Telluria’s issue was unusual and I doubt it will reappear in the future. Anyway, info could stay 1 month AFTER actual end of event you can summon particular new hero.

BTW, IMO the only nerf Telluria v.1.0 needed was changing her mana speed from Average to Slow and that’s it, but it’s off-topical, SG decided different.

Most people are angry about the bait and switch policy going around for a long while
Beta testers are also upset because some players blame them thinking they are giving wrong feedback to developpers
But the reality : developpers dont listen to any player beta or not they only listen to money sound.

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A car dealership sold you a luxurious car for a fortune, and you’re so happy that you even picked up all the options and every fancy decorations you can think of. And then FOURTEEN DAYS LATER the dealership people sneaked in your garage and switched it for a pickup truck, or whatever everyday vehicle that does its job well, even with the same options and stuff, without your consent or even knowing beforehand. Please describe how happy you can be.

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I have Kalo. I will not use Kalo. Reason? His slow mana speed… in fact the only slow or very slow heroes I use are healers because I’ve no choice when forming 6-10 formations. Gullinbursti, Therese and Heimdall. I have hard enough time fully leveling average mana speed heroes as it is; like Guinevere or sif. Even though Kalo special is unique, it’s not worth my investment any longer. I might pull him out for four star rush but I can almost bet you the next one will exclude green heroes… :thinking::face_with_spiral_eyes:

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The thing that gets me about Krampus is the fact that he is a really good hero, and was only a year old there was absolutely no need for a costume. They then just made the costume a complete upgrade over the original. It was not hard to see that would be an issue.

Regarding Kalo, for me speed is one of the most important factors and determining how I’m going to use a hero, lowering a heroes speed should be the last thing to be changed. Personally I only intended to use him for VF so the change doesn’t effect me but I can understand why it would upset people who plan to use him everyday. Again it was not hard to see that this hero was going to be a problem and was released anyway.

I have used and faced Ferrant some since it will say he still is a really good hero. I haven’t had much experience with Azmia. But it does appear to me that their biggest sin was being a viable tank at the five star level.

What makes me jaded towards the balance process that its plain to see heroes now only seem to be buffed if they are already good and they have an upcoming portal that needs to increase interest. Weak heroes don’t get buffed if there are arleady good chase heroes with them. Old heroes now only get fixed by costume so you have to pull them again.

@Nomad2021 that’s different situation, because you don’t DIRECTLY buy any hero in E&P - you can only buy “lottery tickets” and try to WIN what you want.

Noone is inside your head while you are pulling and you are unable to prove that you bought all these “tickets” chasing particular hero.

To be honest it’s not nerfs themselves that irritate me (Ferant is still plenty useful, Kalo’s 140% damage on VS speed is a bit too low on the other hand, but at least there is that Gargoyle skin) but honestly I don’t like how SGG lies to us and behaves with these nerfs. It was already there with Ferant: they stated that Ferant was overrepresented in Raids despite Wolves and Ravens being released together, which was not true at all. They changed this explanation later, but that means that their argument is no longer valid, so there should be at least little more wait before Ferant’s nerf. That didn’t happen, implying explanation for his nerf was something else entirely, meaning SGG was not honest with us.

Now for Kalo. First problem: SGG pretty much admitted they knew he was bugged. They told noone, so everyone can pull for him, and only fixed him after that. No warning that this hero is not working properly so pull for him at your own risk. Second. SGG’s message states that Kalo was top hero for few weeks, despite not even two weeks passing between his release and his nerf, and not a week passing between his release and the proposal for his nerf - so their stats are essentially meaningless. Plus the whole delay from release to nerf implies this was planned since his release - to leave people pull for OP hero then immediately nerf him. And for this no compensation, not even apology, just lies, lies, lies.

So sorry, but I hate when someone thinks I won’t see through this, so of course I will post about it.

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Okay. Different scenario.

You saw the local dealership putting up big ads of luxury cars and you went on and won one of them. You were so happy that you got all the options on it. Fourteen days later the dealership sneaked in your garage and switched it for an ordinary vehicle that still does its job pretty well, leaving you a note saying the luxury car you’ve won was not supposed to be that good. Please describe your feelings.