Let me understand- Trophy math confusing

Hi, guys!

I’m in Diamond Arena now…but I don’t understand why if I’m attacking a Def Team weaker than mine, I risk a lot of cups if I loose, instead of a minor prize if I win…while If a stronger Team takes its revenge against me, it gains 40/50 cups for the victory, and it looses 8/10 for the defeat…

Can you help me to understand?!

Sorry for my poor english…

Trophies available for win/loss are based solely on the number of trophies you and the defender currently have. It has nothing to do with the strength of the defending heroes—not directly, at least. That’s why people reroll, looking for a matchup that they can attack effectively that yields a decent return of trophies.

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Because team power has nothing to do with cups. Only how many cups you have at the time of the fight vs the number of cups the enemy has at the time of the fight.

OK…Team Power has nothing to do with the cups reward.

So…the Contender with more cups at the moment of the fight wins less, while the one with less cups wins more…it doesn’t matter if it is a first attack, or a revenge…

Right?

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Correct. The calculation presumes that the person with more trophies is stronger and “should” win. You are rewarded more for beating a team that “should” beat you, and less for beating one that you “should” beat. It rewards you for taking risks and punching above your weight.

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The trophies in this game are based on the Elo Rating systems. Here’s something that I am quoting from the Wiki, which might help you understand the system a bit before you do further reading.

“A player’s Elo rating is represented by a number (trophies/cups, in our case) which increases or decreases depending on the outcome of games between rated players. After every game, the winning player takes points from the losing one. The difference between the ratings of the winner and loser determines the total number of points gained or lost after a game. In a series of games between a high-rated player and a low-rated player, the high-rated player is expected to score more wins. If the high-rated player wins, then only a few rating points will be taken from the low-rated player. However, if the lower-rated player scores an upset win, many rating points will be transferred. The lower-rated player will also gain a few points from the higher rated player in the event of a draw. This means that this rating system is self-correcting. Players whose ratings are too low should, in the long run, do better than the rating system predicts and thus gain rating points until the ratings reflect their true playing strength.”

Hope this helps.

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The tricky bit is that, in E&P, defensive strength is a different “game” than offense. Elo works great in, say, chess. In E&P, however, someone may have great defensive heroes but little depth in good attackers. Also, the AImplays defense, while the player controls offense. Finally, people can (and do) set out garbage teams on defense to drop cups, making it easier to fill the heroes wanted chest.

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This.

One of Elo’s few assumptions is a significant penalty to deliberate trophy dropping/ reward for trophy climbing and another assumption is roughly equal number of matches played by all players.

Both of these are poor fits for most MMO game.

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That is true… There are loopholes that players do use to fill up their chests more quickly or easily. But I think the way game counters that is the division of the arenas. The question then boils down to probably which is better, getting 4 chests in a lower arena as compared to 1 in higher tiers. Hopefully RNgesus balances out everything.

On a side note, what system do yout hink would be a good fit for such games? Or what modifications to the present system might get rid of these loopholes? Is there any thread discussing alternate systems? Thanks for the reply.

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I should have linked this thread earlier:

There have been a few proposals for basing raids on TP, which I think is folly. The most interesting rewrite of the raid matching system was this:

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This is often discussed on the forum.

Elo works, you just need to properly bribe the players.

Several other games give you gems based on defeating attackers with your defense teams. Since attackers can not earn gems, and attackers can skip your defense, it cuts down on most abuse. Pokemon GO also puts a daily cap in place to prevent win trading for gems ( actually their premium currency is coins ).

In other games the food/ iron/ recruit rewards to whichever side wins a raid. So if the defense wins, the defense gain food/ iron/ recruits with no raid energy. Maybe the Watchtower can be changed to the “Trader Depot” and change the lore from defending your base to defending your outposts.

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Wow… Those are some cool ideas. I never played any other rpg style mobile games so I had no idea. Yes, definitely the watch tower raiding systems needs to be altered to tackle such issues. Thanks for sharing the knowledge.

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