Leonidas is better than Musashi with the latest Hero changes, and the weaker HOTM's are becoming obsolete

Since Leo’s last improvement with 1.12 update, he’s better than Musashi now, in my opinion. Stats are similar enough to not really make a difference:
Leonidas: Average mana, 731 attack, 718 defense, 1221 health
Musashi: Fast mana, 786 attack, 679 defense, 1278 health
Musashi has higher tile damage, but Leo has better defense.

Leo’s special attack, without troop boost, is 2,668 to 1 target, and 40% mana reduction.
Leo also heals himself of a massive 75% of damage dealt to him prior to doing his special attack.

Musashi’s Special attack, without troop boost, is 2,609 to 1 target, minor damage to nearby targets. If this is actually 40% of his special attack (who knows for sure), that equals 1,043 to nearby targets.
Musashi heals 50% of “normal damage” dealt to him over the next 5 turns, no immediate health gained though. Why is it that he heals only “normal” damage dealt anyway?? That’s just stupid.

All this being said, the latest improvement they made on Leo makes him better than Musashi now, so there’s yet another HOTM that isn’t as good as a regular run-of-the-mill 5* that can be received from TC-20, by anyone with a TC-20 that is.

While I understand the developers trying to improve and balance the Heros that aren’t very popular, which is quite evident in this latest round of Hero changes, they have to remember that what makes the HOTM’s special is that they either have better stats, have a better special attack, have 3 or 4 parts to their special attack, something along those lines. Leo, Elkanen, Thorne, a couple others were all improved, either in stats, damage dealt, or something similar.

Musashi only had 2 parts to his special from the get-go and was therefore already weaker than other HOTM’s. With the latest round of HOTM’s, like Zeline, Aeron, and Alasie, the older ones are becoming obsolete as HOTM’s and are more like regular 5* Heros.
I don’t even need to mention Thoth, it’s well known that Del made his Special Attack minions seem like a joke.
If they’re going to improve the less used Heros, they should also make sure that ALL of the HOTM’s stay special for more reasons than being rare or having to get lucky to get them.

That being said, what do you other players out there that spent the money, time, and mats on the older HOTM’s think about it?

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Let’s take a look at older HOTMS : hel, Athena, ares, musashi, alberich

These where the group of hotms

And I know people would spend a ton to get 4/5 if these old HOTMs

So tell me how are they becoming obsolete?

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I obviously wasn’t referring to Athena, Hel, or Alby, or Ares. But as the new HOTM’s come out, they are getting weaker because the new ones are so much stronger. Give me one older HOTM that is even close to Zeline…:thinking:

Thoth, Natalya, Musashi, if it weren’t for Perseus’ no-heal buff, he would be in the same boat. And for the record, I do have all of these, so I’m not just knocking them because I don’t have them. :face_with_raised_eyebrow: :slightly_smiling_face:

Since Leonidas is better than Musashi please anyone with Musashi trade with me! I’ll give you TWO Leonidas (better hero) for ONE Musashi (worse hero).
It’s a win win for you!

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Damage + cleave > Damage

Better attack > better defense
Damage from tiles get multiplied with combos.

If we have to look at specials damage efficiency we should even count the required charging tiles.

Leo could have some uses but IMHO Musashi is better.

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Your title is incorrect.
Older hotm are hel, athena, Ares. These three don’t seem to have any replacement. There will never be a better raid attacking hero than hel or a Titan killing hero than Athena.
Alberich is still the only Resurrection hero.
A couple lesser hotm are worse than the new ones? Yeah, but some of the old ones are mountains over the new ones still. The new ones are supposed to be better. They have higher power and they are being released to entice the players with all the heroes to keep buying. Why buy if you are getting junk heroes? There’s a reason gravemaker was not released in his prior mediocre status. Now if the nerf them after everyone spends…

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If the mana speed of Leo is FAST, hands down he is better :slight_smile:

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There are a few HotM that could use a little buff, but I don’t think Musashi is one of them. He’s certainly better than Leonidas; he hits faster, his tiles hit harder, and he hits multiple opponents.

Thoth, Perseus, Aeron, and Natalya, however, could all see a little love.

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Yes, Aeron’s healing ability is kinda low…SG really needs to buff his healing ability up.

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Eh, but do all HOTM have to be that good? I mean the ones mentioned are not bad, just weaker than other HOTM. I like it that not every HOTM is borderline OP.

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Sorry for doing a zombie post, but I would like to state a couple things.

First, I think Mus is stronger than Leo, hand down, but there are some variables.

This is mostly due to the initial attack. There are 5 types of attacks.

0 ememies. All (or most) healers are this, along with Nat.
1 enemy Of course, they do 100% damage to target.
1 + minor to nearby. From my testing, (hitting 3 identical targets), is is 50% 100% and 50%.
1 + nearby This is 100% 100% 100% hit.
All enemies. Of course 500%

Note, the last 3 are the ‘optimal’. They could be 1 target, if there are no targets nearby, OR if only 1 target is left. This does reduce their usefulness late in the fight. NOTE, on one of the recent specials (sand people), the 1 + (minor) nearby hit ALL targets. There was a major target in back. If that enemy was targetted, then he/she was hit, and ALL 5 front blocking troops were hit. That made a 1+near as powerful hitting as an ALL, but the 1+near are usually Average mana vs Slow.

Ok, for Mus vs Leo:

Mus is a 1 + minor, so he hits 200% * 2609.5, which is 5219. Leo only hits 100% of 2668. BIG difference here. Mus has 55 attack over Leo, so his tile hits are considerably stronger. Also, the difference between Fast (for a much harder hitter), and average (for a much weaker hitter), is a BIG deal. You may get 3 specials for Mus vs only 2 for Leo for a total of 52192.2 vs 26682 (the 2.2 assumes that not all 3 hits were able to be done against 3 targets, since as the battle goes on, hopefully targets get removed). But the special value of Mus is devastating vs Leo.

The heal for Leo is certainly MUCH better. It is 75% every time. For Mus, it is 10% for every turn UNTIL 5 turns OR someone dispells the buff (which greatly reduces Mus healing if an opponent has a dispell hero). For attacking, this dispell can be mitigated by making sure any dispell have just fired, before using Mus special, but on defense team this will certainly be a big hindrance.

Also the mana gen for leo is VERY nice, BUT it is only 1 player. Yes, you can target your worst enemy, and keep them in check. Mus does not have this at all, so this is a win for Leo, and in SOME battles, this can make/break the win or loss.

They certainly both are decent 5* (not the BEST, but certainly good ones). I currently have neither, but if I could get a Mus vs Leo, or trade a Leo (once my tc20 spits him out), I would do so in a heart beat. But I was not playing game when Mus was released, so unless SG has some ‘prior hero of the month month’, Im pretty mush SOL on getting him.

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Musa is better than leo, though leo is certainly playable now.

In addition to fast vs average, don’t forget that Musa basically gets 3x any attack buffs than Leo. Ares or Boldtusk are giving a huge attack boost to 3 different targets now.

Also, 50 points higher attack stat is a non-trivial difference vs titans and purple tanks.

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