[KNOWN ISSUE] Russell's Special can be Dodged by Rogue Talent

Comon S.G…we’ve been complaining about rogues (especially Frigg) evading Russell’s direct damage when clearly his special specifically states “this special never misses”…and please …nobody refer me to the report a bug tab…it just comes right back here…pic proof

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Yup, very bad.

The Monk class now can resist his burn, I hope if they fix the evade thing they’ll look into this too.

@Dudeious.Maximus
Can you ask Staff that this is intended or not ?

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The never miss is applicable only for direct damage and monk should be able resist. But evading the direct damage is bummer.

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No it says this special skill never miss. And the burning dot is part of the special skill.

I’m not sure if monk should be able to resist, after all the skill didn’t miss it hit the target, the target just didn’t get the dot.
There are also some hotm who are imun to burn damage. If monk gets overruled should passive abilities also get overruled?

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I think monk class resising burn etc is fine the special still hit and did damage the monk was just able to resist the DoT its not like it missed.

For rogue it would be nice to get confirmation from SG. I guess I could normalise it from the standpoint that the rogue evades and as such it is just a glancing blow that has still hit hence to DoT still applying but the hit itself does deal damage

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As you said, it didn’t miss, it is just that it was resisted. It would be no different than hitting Kingston. You hit him, but he will resist the burn damage.

Yes but someone could still argue that the burn damage missed its target.

Because what’s really the difference, it also hit the target when it dodges. But there the dodge got active and the damage didn’t come but Russell still overrule dodge, here monk triggered the resist and the damage didn’t come.
But if the target wasn’t hit in the first time dodge wouldn’t trigger at all.

So I’m not sure with the whole this special skill can’t miss its target. It’s more a ignore blind and gamblerstance for me. There the target actually doesn’t get hit but with Russell you can overwrite it and hit.

For dodge, monk etc you already hit the target before, so that’s the whole reason why it dodged, resisted whatever it did in the first place.
And because of that I’m not sure why the skill should overrule dodge but not resist.

Either it means with “hit” interact with the target. Than the target should still be able to dodge or resist or whatever.
Or it means with “hit” that the special skill should always do what’s written on the card and ignoring all the opponent can do. So doing damage and ignoring dodge, but than that also means that the target can’t resist and should get burn damage.

I can’t have 2 different explanations for 2 different parts of the special skill when the first line written on the card is the same for both.

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Interesting a class is a class though this another double edge sword.
I’ll forward it to mod chat.

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Terms

I always thought “evade” was terrible. Even though it went with Rogue

I think the Devs should change it to another like “Graze” / “Nick” / “Deflect” / etc. implying a near miss reducing damage but still making contact with the skin

All I can note is someone did identify this in beta. I just checked to see if there was commentary there. All I see is one post and no reply from players or staff - it was a comment on its own little island. See below.

I just had Frigg evade Russell’s special… Bug?

I hope that “not missing its target” won’t mean only that you won’t see MISS (as in, when you are with a - accuracy detrimental). If that’s the case, then this HOTM is even more underwhelming than it looked at first.

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If the “SKILL” never misses…then EVERYTHING that the “SKILL” lists should hit its mark EVERY TIME…BOTH hit…and burn…no matter the class unless the hero specifically resists burn :man_shrugging:t5:

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I’m on board here too. The attack didn’t miss. The target just resisted the effects of it. Can’t wait for a new buff. Rather than dodge, we can have a 45% chance to resist damage from special skills.

That’s your interpretation because you really want it like that. If you interpret the rules, such as they are, the sequence is: Russell hits with the burn DoT, monk class resists. Nowhere on Russell’s card says that it will override resists, or other special skills. I can think of other examples where Russell’s burn damage shouldn’t harm the target hero and still be within the parameters of the special:

  1. Vanda’s (or Gato’s) protection from status ailments
  2. BK with his taunt. You hit him with Russell, there’s a 50% of the initial hit being 1, and DoT won’t happen to his surrounding companions
  3. Elradir, he won’t take any damage, rather the DoT will be reflected away to the opposing team.

In all these examples, the hero doesn’t dodge or evade. The hero was hit, but they have specials that mitigate the burn part of Russell’s special. It’s not even a case of arguing semantics, they got hit, that’s all that Russell’s special guarantees.

2 effects, 2 different results. Why would you expect the monk skill not to kick in? It has nothing to do with EVADING the hit, which is why I would expect it work against the Rogue skill, or specials that do dodge since Russell’s special seems to be specifically designed that way.

Now, if the special isn’t working that way, and it only negates the negative effects of Wu Kong or Joon’s blindness, then I would expect the card to be completely re-written. Otherwise, it would only be a resist blindness+ type special rather than deal with dodge and evades.

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Not really.
I’m more on the

side.

And for me, that’s all he does for sure with his “this special skill always hit”.

Again for me hitting the target means you actually interact with the target. You don’t do that if you are blind or under wus influence and with Russell you can guarantee hit the target.

And yes, I get that Russell was (Maybe?) originally designed as a counter to kadilen c, at least a lot of people read it like that.

But I don’t understand it.
You must hit kadilen c for her to dodge. Because if you are blind and really don’t hit the target it also won’t dodge. So the first line is already done. The special skill hit the target, after that Kadi can dodge or not. If it dodges you hit it but didn’t do damage. But with Russell she never dodges, so the first line doesn’t only guarantee you to hit the target but also to make damage.

If a monk now resists he also was hit. So again the first line is done. Burn hit the target and it resisted. And that’s it with Russell. Now it’s really just the hit part and the damage is optional.

So I’m not saying I think a monk should resist. I’m saying I don’t really understand why it overwrite dodge and if it does why doesn’t it also overwrite resist :man_shrugging:

This thread has made me curious how Russell reacts to elemental reflect on reading the skills description, I had assumed it would bypass it, but then I had also assumed it would not be susceptible to dodge…

Thank you for the report! We are aware of the issue here and it should be fixed in the next version update (version 43). I’ll mark this as known now.

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I don’t think it will (and wouldn’t expect it to) bypass as that is a seperate skill.

By bypass, I meant go through the reflect to hit the enemy, akin to a bypass, rather than the bypass skill specifically.

To my mind, If the attack is reflected, it hasn’t satisfied the description of the special.

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