Knock Knock... Thorne? SG's 'BALANCING' act... What did you think?

I’m not sure I understand what the Razor’s Edge numbers represent.

I levelled Thorne and am really pleased with the buff.

I know he’s no Magni or Athena, but I don’t have them.

In fact Blue snipers/hitters of any kind are absent from my roster.

So I’m glad to have him. He lasts a long time and he damages enemies. Ok, there’s no status effect, but he does a job.

No regrets.

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If he was fast, he would play on eye level with Sarta, Lianna and Magni.

For being average mana a little buff is missing to him like blinding nearby.

Even Sartana being fast has a small DoT buff in addition to her high dmg.

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@Kayo

Lets use Attack: 42/65 for Thorne.

The left number 42 is his mathematical “RANK” within his own Rarity (Legends).
The right number 65 ‘’ ‘’ ‘’ ‘’ within all Rarities calculated in the utility (Rare, Epic & Legend).

The Ap is an algorithm that uses several variations on the values using ‘relations’ - it’s purpose is to give a more REALISTIC “RANK” within the pool (as card #'s often don’t tell the whole truth and nothing but the truth) and it was put through some rigorous reviews before finally released.

My documentation on it does need to be updated, it is and always is available through the utility… and a topic tread here in the forum as well. Hope that kind of clarifies for you…

If you DUMP the Ap and Dh and only look at CARD values…

Thorne’s POWER was unaffected. His Defense was unaffected. (but I assure you a change in either of the following comes back around and effects the unaffected numbers)…

His Attack was 42 (not out of possible numbers because there is duplication of #'s in the pool) and it resulted in 38. +4

His Health was 13 and resulted in 30. -17

Is the system absolutely 100% accurate, no, it within good reasoning provides an alternative view of value using card stats. And so far a very good one. Thanks! Probably more than you wanted to know and likely not enough to understand? Idk. I tried. RaZ

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Ok, if you like the current meta, fine. If they leave Guin as it is, nothing will ever change in this game, and it will become static (it already has). Yellow tank vs purple offensive team. Every war will be the same. Every raid in the top tier will be the same.

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Could be changed by forcing a certain rnd color tank for each war and/or even each player.

Perhaps they could call it field diversity in addition to field aid.

Requested:

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In balancing, one attack power is a 5 value, defense is a 2 value, and health is a 1 value, so the stat changes should result in a net buff.

This is from my own hero calculations.

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@Tiffiel @Olmor - I’m not saying that I enjoyed the GUIN period of the game much at all until I obtained her. However I still openly stood for ‘no nerfing’ even when my team couldn’t get past her…

This topic may have been a can of worms I probably should have taken with me fishing at a lake not a forum lol. Tiffiel the GUIN era, it’s nearing its end - she will always be one of the best granted.

Well great thing is we will always have SARTANA!!!
Empires-and-Puzzles-Sartana
Take care everyone and have fun with the topic!

RaZ

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hi, i don’t have thorne. but lucky to ger frida. if my tc20 drop him, i think he could be a great add to my ice team. Frida could make him not bad. but alone, thorne don"t seem usefull to my eyes

I’m seeing a lot of Richard+3 at tank in high-diamond raids. He’s doing just fine, thank you.

Thorne is in a sorry state. Arguably he’s worth less now than he was before. At least with the previous design he was a serious meat shield. Now he is just, well, meh. If I had him maxed, I would be scrambling to get Frida online; a Frida+Thorne one-two strike can do serious damage. But that tells you more about Frida than it does about Thorne. Similarly, Evelyn makes Elkanen look good.

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Best hero is the one you have right? not the one you would like to have.
For a f2p player Thorne its an ok hero, two or three people in my alliance have him maxed out.
I have him too but at 2/60 :sweat_smile:.
He is a good tank, personally i wouldn’t have gave him a buff to any of his stats or his % special, just a secondary effect on the special, or i would have changed the mana from average to fast.

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That field diversity is a great idea. Alternatively, require players to designate up to 6 defense teams (or the AI will do it for them). When the first team goes down, the second one steps up after the respawn time. Then, the third team steps up after the next respawn, etc.

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Facing some Thornes during raids now - he is a quite formiddable opponent, dealing around 900 damage to a full 4/80 5* hero and 400-500 to flanks.

Complex math inside, click to read

His special was 605*460% = 2783, now it’s 638 * 480% = 3062, that results in +14% of damage.

Let’s compare him to Lianna and Quintus, who are single-hit and AoE versions of Thorne respectfully:

For comparison sake, I divide the natural damage (attack ^1.35) by number of tiles required to charge (8 for Lianna, 10 for Thorne, 12 for Quintus) to offset the mana speed.

Lianna: (729 * 512%)^1.35 / 8 = 8300 base damage per tile
Thorne (638 * 480%) ^ 1.35 /10 = 5083 damage per tile for one target, 7626 base damage for 2 targets and 10167 for 3 targets
Quintus: (747 * 270%) ^ 1.35 / 12 = 2411 for one target, 9643 for 4 targets, 12053 for 5 targets

Realistically speaking, in raids and wars, the most common scenario when your average or slow hero charges up is when tank is already down, leaving maximum 2 targets for Thorne and 4 for Quintus. In this case, Thorne can deal 91% of the damage of Lianna (accounted for mana speed) and Quintus will deal 116% of the damage of Lianna (accounted for mana speed).

Let’s compare relative tankiness (HP * Def^1.35 / Speed)

Lianna: 1248 * 729^.1.35 / 8 =1142K
Thorne: 1339 * 793 ^1.35 / 10 = 1098K (was 1421 * 793^1.35 / 10 = 1166K)
Quintus: 1380 * 636 ^1.35 / 12 = 700K

So, Thorne now is a little less durable (-4%) than Lianna (was +2%), and much more durable (+57%) than Quintus.

I’d say, that Thorne got +7.5% of tile damage, +14% of special damage and lost 4% of his durability. He stays firmly in the middle between Lianna and Quintus both in term of special damage and durability, and lacks behind them in terms of tile damage.

Conclusions (TLDR)

Thorne is now more suited for both Offence and Defence. Sucks at Titans and has always been. I’d regrade him to B on offence and B- on defence

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Medium speed, 793 defense and 1339 health
He will still be able to survive pretty well in my opinion…

in a defensive point of view (with a mana troop) he would still be able to fire at least once in the majority of the cases and the ones I faced had dealt over 700 damage on the main target.

To me is on par with Marjana now.

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Question is - while Thorne is being worked on with arguably any meaningful effect whatsoever (top100 sightings:3) , there are 5* heroes that are significantly worse than 4* heroes, and SG is on full ignore mode (publicly).

One glaring example is Boss Wolf - portrayed leader of an Event gang yet pieced together from secondary and tertiary effects.

All balance changes come from spreadsheets … sadly. I’ve yet to see an argumented written text on why a particular change was made so we can chime in. It’s like a sad state of a state government elects - those that have the beta forum access do shape the game for us all and sometimes I feel we, the ordinary citizens, get shafted :slight_smile: There re no referendums either…

my 2c those were

Just as an observer of the legendary tier, here are my thoughts;

Despite his atk stat buff, it’s still not good. He’s still got a very low atk stat, and I think it’s clearly because of his skill doing so much damage. Maybe a dev reading this can answer to that, but I feel I’m on to something here.

Me personally, I don’t think every hero needs a “cool” secondary effect. Lianna doesn’t have it, and she works fine right? Well she’s got a good attack stat to begin with lol, and she’s also faster than him.

I think attack stat is the key here. As it stands it’s very unimpressive on Thorne. If he’s your only blue 5 star hero then well he’s not terrible, but he is pretty outclassed otherwise.

True, his speed being average is not great, but if they make him fast then he’d easily be way better. That likely won’t happen without some nerf to his skill damage though. I’m fine if he stays where he is in terms of speed.

In my opinion, the only buff he needed was an atk stat buff. That’s it. He’d be much better with titans if his atk stat would be brought up to the 680~700 range. Because that would make both his normal attacks deal more damage than Scarlett (yea right now he is at 4 star level in terms of attack strength lol) and his special skill deal a more reasonable amount of damage (for a 5 star) to the one target.

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No! It doesn’t even make sense. If you have just 50 Dawas, are they the best heroes?

It does make sense because i was quoting JTBs post where he said he maxed Thorne and he was saying that he knows very well Thorne aint no Magni or Athena but he doesnt have those heroes but got him instead and he’s glad he has it…

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Notice how much these threads talking about which hero is overpowered / underpowered are stemmed/derived from players actually owning the said hero or not?

I think most of the complaints about certain character being OP and needs to be nerfed (Guinevere for example) are for players who don’t have her and those that do will generally jump out and say nah uh, she’s just fine the way she is, or they stay quiet.

So nerf those OP heroes because I don’t have them, but buff the ones I do have, they are too UP. There are some exceptions, but not too many… Human tendency.

Thorne, I recently pulled from TC20, and is still sitting on my bench untouched. Haven’t used him, and abilities he has seemed underwhelming on paper, I think even a damage all like Quintus would make him more viable (no blind spots)…… Playing for free meant I did not have too many chances and certainly didn’t have the luck to pull better heroes. If he is my only 5* blue, I’d likely still use him to some extent.

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Good Thoughts @DaveCozy you make good points!

Empires-and-Puzzles-Lianna Empires-and-Puzzles-Thorne

@MrMeeseeks now lets be the meseek that initially materializes not the 100th one trying to correct a swing that just can’t be (lol) . We all have our differences and this is place to express that - were E&Peeps! @KnifeWonder that is certainly one way to appreciate what you have.

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