Jabberwocky - 600% Damage Against Titans?

Seriously, I’m just confusing myself at the moment trying to get the math to fit ANYTHING that resembles a numerical mean in damage from specials. Once you have applied an attack down the actual real life variation can be enormous. I was just trying out specials on known Bosses and got results of 600-830 from specials and then applied a 34% defense down and got multiple results of 1110-1320. I’m starting to wish I had not started down this rabbit hole.

But as you say: don’t use most specials on a Titan unless they are an attack buff or defense down, set off Sartana, for example, and you lose more than 10 seconds of play when a strong colour can give you 200+ per tile not counting critical attacks.

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It’s a power. So the inside of the brackets to the power of 1.35

The real formula uses a theta which can vary in the value (hence how some tiles hit for X and others hot for Y from the exact same circumstances).

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How do I calculate that?
100×((743×1.2×6)÷700)^1.35 = 1557
The number in brackets is ((5349,6)/700)=7,64228571x100=764,228571 then what? Or do I have this “power” thing to do before I multiple by 100?

Power first.

Bomdas is the order

  1. Brackets
  2. Order (powers)
  3. Multiply and divide
  4. Add and subtract

Other one is BIMA

  1. brackets
  2. Indices
  3. Multiply and divide
  4. Add and subtract
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THX That was my fault! I multipled first

@zephyr1… where is the 600% bonus for Titan/single enemy added?
Shouldn’t it be 2x100×((743×1.2×6!)÷700)^1.35 = 3114?

Not exactly. The description is not clear.
He attacks twice.
So 2 times 300%. Since the formula is not linear, it is not the same.

Two attachs: 2x [ 100×((743×1.2×3)÷700)^1.35 ] = 1222

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It is a little bit confusing at first, but if you check out the “Damage Calculation” post that I linked in one of my earlier posts, then you will see that the damage formula is given by:

So, there is a random parameter θ, which is why we get different results even for the exact same scenarios (RNG alert!). Also, the attack (Att) and defense (Def) includes all buffs and debuffs from troops and specials.

The one thing I was confused about was that I thought Jabberwocky does a single attack of 600% when only one enemy is present. But, that is not the case, instead he actually still hits twice with 300% special but on the same enemy, which @zephyr1 kindly corrected me.

Hope, this makes it a little clear. :slight_smile:

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I know, I was already corrected in one of the above posts. :slight_smile:

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I have read that thread which I found well worth reading more than once as the questions clarify things somewhat. @SolemnWolf (in the same thread) makes it a little clearer

Attack is Attack-Stat of the attacker with all the bonuses, penalties and combos
Defense is Defense-Stat of the defender with all the bonuses and penalties
±50% is a random coefficient varying from 0.5 to 1.5 and applied to the Attack/Defense ratio

But he elaborates nicely on the nature of the coefficient Theta and explains, I find more clearly, why once the attack is superior to the defense, the upper limit on damage is almost uncapped.
Oh, you were totally right about the attack % being applied to the initial calculation inside the parentheses. My bad.

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Hey, the card says it’s 600% more damage, not 600% more attack. Giving the Def = 700, the SS damage should be:
600% * 100 * (743 / 700) ^ 1.35 = 650 (ignore the random factor and not count the troop yet).

Lianna is:
512% * 100 * (729 / 700) ^ 1.35 = 540

I doubt if SS stack with elemental debuff. E.g Fire Wilbur then Jackal then Drake, the damage will be multiplied by:
( 1 ÷ (1 - 0.44) ÷ (1 - 0.54)) ^ 1.35 = 6.24 times

But see this video and watch Drake’s damage in 1st and 2nd, never close to that number

So I got a chance to see your video. So from your first Jackal attack I was able to determine the defense of the 11 star titan as 1000, so we will use this in our calculations. Also, your Drake is not fully leveled so I will just assume his attack stat to be 700.

So on his first hit (without any defense debuffs) his damage was:

100×(1.364×700×2.7×1.2÷1000)^1.35 = 459 [This is little bit on the higher side thanks to the high value of the random parameter. Usually it stays near 1]

On his second hit his damage was:

100×(1.031×700×2.7×1.2÷(1000×0.46))^1.35 = 898 [Only elemental defense stacks because he is yellow, so were right about both elemental and normal defense debuff not stacking for specials. I guess they only stack for tile damage. :slight_smile:]

So that should explain the damages he did. The random parameters were 1.364 and 1.031 in each case. Of course, bear in mind that these are all theoretical calculations based on the experience of players. We have no way of knowing what formula is actually used in the programming, so until we find that these are all the best guesses we can do :slight_smile:

Damage ≈ 100 x ( θ x Att / Def ) ^ 1.35
Need to be on the same page about damage calculation first, Drake SS cause 270% damage so it is 270% x 100 x ( θ x Att / Def ) ^ 1.35
Please do not confuse with Attach buff (eg Tarlak, Miki, Ravir, Kong, Boldstuck, …) which will go inside the exponent.

At least you agree that (1 ÷ (1 - 0.44) ÷ (1 - 0.54)) ^ 1.35 = 6.24 times is not the fact, right?

I’m pretty sure that Special Skill works with Defense Down (Gormek, Grimm, Wilbur, …).That’s why I’m supposing Elemental Def Down does not work with special skill.

As far as I have previously seen in the forums, that is not the correct interpretation of the special skill percentage. That percentage also goes inside ‘Att’ calculations. This is easy to prove from your video. If you see the first time Jackal attacked the titan he did a damage of 701 with Wilbur activated.

So that is given by: 100×(2.7×765×1.15÷(1000×0.56))^1.35 = 703 (close enough)

If what you are saying is correct, his damage should have been:

2.7×100×(765×1.15÷560)^1.35 = 496 (which is not correct)

As for the rest, when there are two defense debuffs, the elemental one is chosen if the colour matches the debuff. That is why Eve+Lianna or Jackal+Joon are such effective combos.

Also, note that Tarlak and Miki attack buffs don’t apply to special skills, they only apply to normal attacks (that is tile damage).

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Thanks for making it clearer. I got another video:


2:05 Seshat SS does 583 damage (no debuff and Tarlak buff ignored for SS)
3:47 Seshat SS does 925 damage (elemental debuff from Panther)

Definitely elemental debuff and SS work together.

That makes sense and answered my question: def down and elemental def down does not stack for special skill

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Uhm, I see the weakness in above calculation is the assumption Titan Def is 1000. Do you have any reference to be sure that the percentage will go inside the exponent?

Sure, check out this clip from a raid battle. Here I show the defense stat of Kunchen (982) and the attack stat of Leonidas (869). So considering these values the damage of Leonidas on Kunchen is expected to be:

100×(869×3.65÷982)^1.35 = 486 (which is close enough to 461 shown in the video, and the difference can be attributed to the random parameter)

If we take the random parameter as 0.961, then we will get the exact value as:

100×(0.961×869×3.65÷982)^1.35 = 461.

Hope this helps. :slight_smile:

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Tks updated my understanding. haha the card description is really confusing

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Yes, it is confusing. And you’re welcome, it was a riveting discussion indeed. Happy gaming. :slight_smile:

Was it riveting?

So…all of that to say…hero attacks fast…hits hard…is good…(not game=changing)

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