Is the game really P2W? or not?

So the devs finally closed Avi’s thread about the P2W discussion. I suppose they were tired of ignoring it. I find it very weak and cowardly to close that topic without any REAL answers or discussion. Sure, they did address some of the issues but I think we can all agree their answers created even more distrust and raised more questions than they answered. Most of their denial of the changes were put into serious question by players with a history of keeping very good records. Several very good questions were asked, with a lot of supporting data to back them up, yet no real answers were ever given. I think we deserve better than that!

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I’m glad that somebody adress it, thank you somebody :wink: :+1:

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I suppose you or someone else might want to start new, more specific threads about those very good questions that have gone unanswered to give those the spotlight you think they deserve?

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exactly do this. The thread had degenerated into a mess of people sniping at each other.

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I would love to be that guy but sadly, I am not. I’m just an average joe nobody with suspect writing skills. If one of the top players and guild leaders in the game can’t get answers while being backed by most of the online community, I’m pretty sure I won’t have any better luck, I just didn’t want this topic to be dropped and forgotten.

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Devs are to busy getting ready to watch their bank accounts swell in a few days to worry any comments from peons like us…I’m actually surprised they kept that thread open that long before shutting it down…

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@Petri Regarding Are we heading to Pay2Win? Plus, other concerns discussion’s closure, would be possible to implement a system of moderation where, according to moderator’s decisions, the offenders would not be able to post for a determined time and doing so letting the discussion goes on?
It is the last word or would you consider to reopen the topic after that irrespect post are removed?

We know that “The Small Giant Games staff have the final decision on all matters” and that “Empires & Puzzles forum staff and moderators monitor all posts and reserve the right to remove any comment that is in breach any of our Forum Rules expressed below” but that topic were the closest place where players could read Staff’s responses after AW’s topic.

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Was a great thread until someone couldnt keep their mouth clean, resulting in a close …

Hope this one stays clean.

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Not so degenerated to close it.
And still nothing off topic would happen if they answered in the first place.
A good excuse to close a 882 posts thread.

At least something in it touch them, to do that.

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I can’t really blame them for not responding to every inquiry we have. Seeing the general community’s reaction, I wouldn’t want to either.

The community has become so toxic at this point that pretty much anything SG does (or don’t do) is interpretted as evil and greedy and shady and full of lies. No response to randomness issues? Oh, that just confirms the conspiracy theory that the game is rigged to force players to pay more money. They respond to randomness issues? Oh, that’s just lies covering up the conspiracy theory that the game is rigged to force players to pay more money. If they even went so far as to show source code, I’m sure there would still be people doubting its legitimacy because of how entrenched the conspiracy theories are…

Same thing with other game mechanics like summons and ascension materials: they’re in a position where they can’t really win. How many threads have there been so far asking for more frequent or guaranteed 5* heroes? If they gave us that, we’d complain that we don’t have the ascension materials to max them. If they gave us all the ascension mats we could ever want, we’d complain that it takes too much food/time to level them. If they did away with levelling, we’d complain that the game is too short and unfulfilling. If any of these things came with any sort of price tag, we’d complain that it’s pure greed (see the preceding paragraph). And so on and so on…

Perhaps if we as a community of players could keep things civil, try to focus on the positive side of things, have some patience, and try to understand each other rather than attack each other, we might be able to get somewhere.

Okay, rant over… :slightly_smiling_face:

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I can see your side and kind of agree but that doesn’t excuse their lack of meaningful communication to very valid concerns. I’ve been at this game for 7 months. I now have 2 5 star heroes that I am months away from being able to ascend even 1 of. I’m all for a great time waster of a grinding game but there is nothing to grind for. You can grind out training camps and mines, food storage and crafters and actually have a measurable progression. The ascension materials have a very very limited guaranteed farming grind in the form of the special quests. It took me four months to even be able to complete the final level on them and with how infrequent they are I’m looking at over a year just to fully level my first 5 star hero. I don’t think wanting that to be lowered to months instead of years is an out of line request.

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Thank you for addressing this subject.

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First, thats not a choice buddy.
While for us is a game, for them is a job.
In my job i don’t pick to get in touch only with people i like or that saying to me only good stuff.
I have to comunicate with everyone, like it or not.

Second: they wasn’t so talkative right from the beginning, and thats what had lead the community to mistrust them. It’s a consequence.

So the story that “don’t get in touch because people rant on them no matter what” is a poor concept.

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We’re the vocal minority. They don’t owe us as much as seem to think. At least the devs are in touch with us here. That’s something. We’re on speaking terms still. Appreciate what you have and build on it, I’d say.

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Don’t underestimate yourself. If the message is clear, that works as well. And will find support here.

You don’t have to write a post as good as @Avicious 's. As good as that post was, it also was a lot in one post, and more added in replies below. There came a point where it was a heap of all and everything, and unless you were following the discussion, points can easily have gotten lost.

That and, as @Dante2377 mentioned the thread got sidetracked in forumite bickering. Which I suppose is a game in itself, and while amusing at times, sometimes you just want people to take a private room.

I don’t know, if you could just list the points that were not addressed by the devs, someone else could take it from there? You started the thread, called the devs weak, now put the finger down where the pain is? Starting a thread like this, kind of creates an obligation :wink:

No guarantees a dev will respond. There never are. But @Petri will read it. He might pass it on.

While you’re perhaps reading, @Petri ? Any chance you are willing to take the OP of @Avicious 's thread and the staff responses of that thread and reopen a new iteration of it? That was some of the most constructive and informative conversations we’ve had with staffers in a while, and despite some individuals disruptions I’m sure many of us would love to continue it in a constructive way.

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First, second, third…

I will be as clear as possible: Nobody is obligated to respond to bashing, no sane job on Earth will ever place such ■■■■■■■■ chains on once’s self and healthy mind.
If the community was keeping a reasonable tone and fair demands, then the staff would answer gladly. Specially in the GAMING community, that’s rule number one of ALL games: 1.Respect other players and game masters. Do not harass them.

Mind your language, state facts, ask for support and suggest changes. This is how game forums had been for ages, before the 98’+ generation came and ruined everything with their immatureness.

The game IS P2W, accept it, it will never change, because changing this marketing strategy would mean the end of support for this game.

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Ironic how you talk of respect for others and proceed to make a blanket statement about the 98’+ generation. Is that intended irony? I’m certain quite a few of us “older” folks can be just as immature, or worse. I don’t think maturity is tied to age in the extent you express.

I do see the increased harshness in people, the decreased value of decorum, politeness, civility. Not just in gamer forums. It’s everywhere in Western society these days, and not just on line. And it worries me indeed. But I’m sidetracking and going off topic.

There’s nothing wrong with discussing P2W and this game. Indeed this game has a F2P business model and that’s not going to change. But the extent to which the game is P2W is somewhat fluid, and part of it is influenced by our behaviour, our reception and our feedback. SG does listen to us, in many ways. One of which is forum feedback.

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The simple solution is play the game if it’s fun and quit if it’s not. I think that they see many people who are willing to spend lots of money on their events. That provides income for them. My guess is that every month they see higher returns, the more likely they are to continue on that path.

You see the avicious post. Only the first one get a response (by Sara, not so active on the forum compared to Petri or Mhalltu). Was the other questions of the same Avicious or even Dante rude? Impolite? So bad to be just ignored? Nope.
But the only other contribution of the staff was to close the thread. Stop. This is a fact.
Not even try to moderate or warning in a topic where the majority of the posts still was inside the rules.

You guys keep giving them an excuse.

Responding is indeed not an obbligation, but a courtesy. A courtesy that can change the attitude of many and rebuild the connection between developers and community.
You think that just be silent would do any good in any conversation? Any relashionship or partnership?

People of the 98+ has no respect, true, but people before it has lost the will to fight for what they think is right.

I absolutely accept that the game has a P2W component, and i absolutely accept that slowly but surely this component grow.

I just can’t really accept people escaping from their responsibilities, or that can’t say something because people don’t like what you are gonna say.

People need to know bad news the same way they need to know the good ones.
You can’t tell only what you like.

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Back to topic:
~Are we heading to Pay2Win?~

and please, somebody change the title!

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