Is the game heading to pay to win?

If the non-beta players could have a bit more of an idea what is heading their way it would be more easy to make choices.

Let me calrify that:
We know there is a Halloween event coming, but no clue what hero’s we maybe can pull.
We know there will be Atlantis summons, but no clue what hero’s we maybe can pull.
If there would be something that makes clear what to expect the F2P (or small spending) players can choose their summons and hope they get the hero’s they would like / need the most.
I am spending very little in this game and it take me a long time to accumilate the needed gems to make summons but am always hesitant because of not knowing what is behind the next door and if this maybe a better new hero for my team…

Experience has taught me that it’s better to expect nothing, in regards to 10x summons. That way you’ll welcome that one 4 star you’ll get and feel okay about feeding the 9 3 stars to the rest of your heroes.

Let’s face it: those events and summons aren’t there for F2P/C2P players to gather new 5 star heroes, the odds aren’t in our favour.

I -am- looking forward to the Halloween event though. But that’s because it’ll give me a shot at some ascension materials, so I can progress what I’ve got.

The spiffy new 5 star heroes are just like supercars. Nice to look at but I’ll never own one. And because of how I defined my personal “Win” for this game, the cool thing is I don’t need to own one. And I’m defeating players that do have these “supercars” in raids on a daily basis.

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Some parts of the original post have been answered in the closed thread:

  • Wu Kong - no intentional changes, they would look into it. Have they?
  • Beta Policy - Beta Guide for Beta players will be written (or has been already?) + restrictions of publicizing media

Wether or not you believe the answer concerning Wu Kong is up to yourself, of course. I guess it depends on the level of trust you have in SGG.

The post of @HarryDeB has nice suggestions about how to increase the trust in SGG and how to manage a possible ‘‘p2w direction’’ of the game.

It would be nice to read other suggestions about how to improve this.


Avicious his post raised a question for me. I have already asked it in the other thread, but no one replied to it.

  • What was summoning heroes like before? Was there a smaller gambling factor? Were the odds on receiving specific heroes higher, because there used to be less heroes? I’d like to know more about the previous situation.

Then the following part remains yet unanswered by SGG. I copied and pasted a bit.

Is it this ‘‘extreme’’? Or is it making sure spenders will have the advantage of how it is supposed to be? If it is extreme, then how can this be fixed while keeping the edge of ‘‘winning’’ to those who spend?


In the same thread Kerridoc summed up some key issues concerning the lack of trust some or most players have in SGG.

Some points have already been answered or replied to by now.

  • Are boards stacked? - SGG said they aren’t.

  • Is Wu Kong broken? - SGG said he has not been changed intentionally. They would look into this. Have they? And if so, what was the result of the check up?

  • Are odds on pulls rigged in some way? - The odds have been published in-game by SGG.

  • Trust that SGG has a vision for how to continue to support, surprise, and delight the community. -

All I can say is that with the recent interaction between SGG and the community about alliance wars, they are trying to improve communication and trust. The surprise element could be created by keeping it secret what kind of Halloween heroes will be introduced. I understand that doing so has downsides and disadvantages for some players, but it is an example of creating a surprise-element. Creating specific Atlantis coins was a way of adding a little delightment to the game. Free summons after collecting the coins. Though people complain about this, I think it’s a nice gesture in general.


Edited: No changes to Wu Kong → No intentional changes to Wu Kong, but they would double check if any unintentional changes had been made.

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Continuing the discussion from Are we heading to Pay2Win? Plus, other concerns:

Let’s start off by asking if they would like to share the result of their investigation into unintentional changes of Wu Kong?

Unless SG has already published this then anyone can let me know. If SG has not, then maybe you could clarify this situation? @Petri

An answer would definitely make clear that this either was the perception of some players or an unfortunate event in updating the game. Either way, I would have more trust than I do already have now. :thumbsup:

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He was tested by several players in the last couple weeks and found to have a 32% miss average.

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In this thread Spent too much got too little - #40 by Duaneski @Kerridoc asked the question:

  • Introducing Event Summon Tokens, he said.

In this thread Bonus Ascension Chests and future events/challenges? @JMarcus wrote:

I would like to add some ideas of mine, which you may adjust to your liking:

Perhaps also Elemental Summon Tokens

Ascension Tokens
Add Ascension Tokens for which in exchange you can obtain a random or specific ascension material.

The required number of tokens depends on the value of ascension items or should be ‘‘reasonably high’’.

The way to obtain these tokens is through, for example: farming map stages (similar to Atlantis system), finishing missions. Possibly even daily login rewards, so that players become more active/loyal.

Alchemy Lab add-on
In addition to including recipes to create ascension materials, it is also possible to include recipes to create Epic/Troop (+Elemental/Event) Summon Tokens. Required ingredients can vary between Daily Summon Tokens, Gems, other high value Summon Tokens (Epic V Troop currently) etc.

What other ideas are out there inside your beautiful creative brains? :wink:

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Please everyone remember that you cannot rationally claim both that the game is P2W AND that the you don’t win no matter how much you spend.

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I am in the ‘pay to win what’ camp? I have spent <$100 in well over a year playing and am competitive in everything. A colleague is more like F2P and accrues google bucks, and maybe has spent $30-40 google bucks and is just as competitive as I am. Will we ever be #1 in events? No, probably not, but because we don’t want to invest the materials, but top 100 happens for us in the tiers. Can each of us reach #1? I have, she could. We win and lose wars, beat titans and lose to some too. We’re progressing each of us still and in our alliance.

I don’t see a win at the end of the game here, just more stuff to do. I’ll leave when it gets boring.

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Response to @Sidhekin

The game fails to be pay to win for the ones who can’t spent Cash with capital letter (no low amount, so Elite PTW) but it is nonetheless a pay to win oriented game: the last time we had an addition to the regular hero pools we had Domitia, Obakan and Khagan (1.8 Release Notes) and while they are not the best in what they does at least they had increased FTP competitiveness… maybe.

My considerations

The game is progressing with 95% of the new additions only achievable by spending gems, now…
if released premium heroes would be added to training camps after some some time passed this gap could be filled: you (with you intended as everyone) would have the time advantage earned with cash to have the best heroes early and for every FTP or new playes would be possible to be as competitive as you once it’ll be possible to earn them with free means in a realistic way (gems farming isn’t a thing in this game).

Atlantis summons tokens are for sure a good thing and helps a lot FTP players but for them to be effective they should be earned not according to RNG rules but by hard work (debatable) as “kill 100 skeleton” daily achievement or such, not the unreliable chance to find them on chests (or to make them drop with a 100% chance in the monster chest).

And the basic heroes needs some love for sure: even a little secondary effect would helo to shorten the gap between basic & premium ones, or even weaker effects of premium heroes.
What we have in the majority of the cases are heroes of a higher tier to be the “better clone” (the Mewtwo of the situation) of previous heroes as

Nashgar :arrow_forward: Kelile :arrow_forward: Marjana (to stay in the same element)
Tyrum :arrow_forward: Caedmon & Sonya (and go on)

but aside from the better stats and the increased special % as a FTP you’ll have the same team from the start of the game with only increased stats and a change of names.
Even a weak element defense debuff would be handy for players who can’t have the best:

Why locking enteire mechanics with the :gem::key:?
Even a -30% element defense would be usefeul on basic heroes (opposed to -54% of the premium heroes) and while they wouldn’t be better then the premium ones they would surely shorten the gap between having premium heroes and basic ones.

I think that adding heroes to the training camp would be the better choice, though

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Unsurprisingly, I have to say, SG has not provided any comments on this post…

I think we all have to start admitting that SG does not care much about the concerns raised by the founder of the biggest gaming community of this game…

It is really sad but I guess reveals the true nature of SG…

If SG were going to respond, they would have done so in Avicious’s original thread (which they did). Or maybe this one. Or this one. Or this one. Or any of the other dozens of threads on this exact same topic…

It’s just beating a dead horse at this point. If you feel that the game is P2W and you don’t like that, there are plenty of other games out there (particularly on consoles or PC) that would probably suit you better than a mobile game with the business model that typically comes with mobile games. Don’t spend your time playing something you don’t enjoy; life is too short for that. :slightly_smiling_face:

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Of course, SG hasn’t commented and they won’t. E&P is on “auto pilot” designed to only be fun if you have top ascended and high leveled-up heroes - because no one enjoys scoring low points on titans and being ineffective in wars with their 3* lineup. If you want to be an effective player, then you need to spend money to get there - its that simple. Trust me, the SG team are onto their next project laughing all the way to the bank. Oh crap, an epic offer just appeared, gotta go buy it now - darn you SG, you’re good! Oh, forgot to add, As for my thoughts of SG, I would have done the same thing!

Dear @stevenmustang ,

Before I can freely contribute back to your topic with my support (or the lack of), findings and insights, I just want to make sure that I understand the main subject/point of your topic,… and if you can, please start by providing me with your answers to the following two questions, …

You said …

1. Specifically, to whom was the topic addressed? … Because I’m totally confused between your use of “All”, “We” and “Community”


In your topic, a simple word count reveals that …

  • 86 words 500 characters (15.6 %), is the words “you” wrote (?)
  • 465 words 2,539 characters (84.4%), is a copy and paste of someone else’s words

2. Specifically, by whom was the topic addressed? … Because, given the above state of confusion I’m in and the word count percentages, I believe that “You”, “All”, “We”, “Community” and “Avicious, founder of the 7DD community” are … one person or that you "are " all affiliated with the same group/alliance/clan/guild.

Thank you,

TEN
Regular member of E&P Community Forum and a sleepless E&P player and lover.


P.S.
“You” do understand how important to me your answers to the above questions are … so I can understand the main subject/point of “your” topic, … Don’t “you”?

P.S.S
Dear SGG, I do hope you realize that I’m really really trying my best over here to be civil and on-topic, … I promise!

The most important thing most players seem to miss is the time you’re spending on the game.

Players that open the game once, maybe twice a day experience it differently than those who are online most of the time and are more dedicated to the game. Recently I have a lot of free time so I have time to play more often. More time to farm the map, more opportunities to hit the titan, raid, collect your food/iron etc. More farming means more swords/backpacks, which translates to more opportunities to train recruits in TC whiiiiich means faster leveling up your heroes.

Another thing is looking at top (or popular) players and comparing yourself to them. Which is stupid. I recommend watching some of the Youtube videos to look at the game from perspective. I saw one recently showing how the top players fight to stay high in ranks during events. It was HORRIFYING for me. The amount of time, items, materials and (of course) money they spend is overwhelming. Same thing with hero summons. For some reason I like watching other people doing 60 summons at once, it’s weirdly satisfying :roll_eyes: But it also puts everything in perspective. You see those people starting with 358685 gems on them, do some pulls and getting HOTMs, Event Heroes or Atlantis ones. But they also get crap.

The best way to enjoy this game is to play it at your own pace. Spend a lot of money or don’t spend at all. Stress over getting best hits on titans or just use your hits and wait what the loot is gonna be for C score. Log in every hour to map or do a raid or log in just every evening to collect from your training camps and chat with your alliance buddies. And, for Pete sake, don’t look at Top 100 and compare yourself to them.

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You all can waste your money on this game but I pulled Zeline and Khiona without spending anything (0€/$…). I have five different 5* heroes out of TC20 and I will get more. I’m sure I also can get more hotm and event heroes. One day I will beat you all as a f2p. Is p2w/gambling a big problem? When yes, then the only solution is to not spend a cent on this game. When that means this game is going down, your welcome, here you can have your life back.

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Sadly… Quite the opposite.

If this “new” heroes increase the chance to get a 5* heroes… Yes, that would really good for the F2P part of the game.

But the chance are always the same and, on reverse, odds to get a specific hero decreased.
What’s more, all this “new” heroes are bad heroes.

So when there was only 2 heroes among greens, chance to get a Lianna from them was 50%, but now it is 25% (and all the others are pretty much bad). I don’t see this as a favor.

Now, it has sense to make all the colors with the same quantity of heroes, but if the ones that people want are always the same (read it Sartana for purple, Lianna for greens and Marjana for reds) you don’t do people a favor, but instead a bad trick.

At least for that, more then one regular hero per color must be desirable.

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It’s not what I were saying. I didn’t talk about “increased chances to get a 5* heroes” or such but about an increased pool of heroes available to FTP players trough training camps and I were comparing the number of “trainable” heroes added against the “premium” ones.

Yes, i know.
But read all the rest.

Introduce “new” bad heroes in fact decrease chance to get good ones. That’s not helping competitive F2P players.

Totally the opposite.

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:+1:
20 boring …

While I agree that they are not the best in what they does (Domitia, Obakan, Khagan) they have added new options to FTP: dispel on 3 target, counterattack on a fast special and bonus mana generation.

I know that many regular 5* heroes lack Lianna’s appeal but even if peoples dislikes Kadileen (for example) she had opened new options. New options ≠ better options but still…
is healthy for FTP than having only the rainbow sniper deities known as Joon, Sartana, Magni, Lianna and Marjana.

Even on special events you’ll have good heroes and bad ones to “decrease chances” to get what you want (ex Boomer) but having more heroes albeit worse than previous ones would be good…

Of course having better special effects would be good and useful ones even better.
They should give a niche for every hero: same quantity and same quality on different areas.

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