Is the game heading to pay to win?


#1

All,

I feel the need to post again the questions that Avicious, founder of the 7DD community, posted a couple of months ago and which SG never officially answered, instead closing off the topic supposedly for personal attacks.

SG, we, the game community, would love if you would finally provide an answer to all the concerns Avicious raised. Thanks in advance.

COMMUNITY please ensure to keep this topic live but please keep civilised so that we can finally get an official answer from SG…

FROM AVICIOUS:

It generally takes a lot for me to post a concern on the forums. But, here I am. And please remember, my opinions are my own and do not necessarily reflect those of Seven Days.

I’m concerned. First and foremost, I’m concerned about the number of people in our community taking breaks from the game or quitting altogether. Many of these are top players… I remember posting a similar complaint about a year ago when Ascension items were way too difficult to obtain. You fixed that, and we moved past it.

I mean, I get it. You can’t make everyone happy. But, I think there comes a point in time where a voice that carries a bit more weight needs to speak up and say something.

This game is heading dangerously in the Pay2Win direction. When you hear from multiple people in the community that they are spending hundreds and hundreds of dollars on the HotM and Event Hero lottery, just to barely come up with one rare hero… is, at the least concerning.

Are we really going to start having to shell out hundreds of dollars to get the most coveted of heroes in Guinevere, Gravemaker (and other prior HotM’s) in order to compete at the top? Because, that’s what it’s starting to feel like.

I understand that there is a business model. I understand that summoning hero is essentially gambling. But, it didn’t used to be like this, in my opinion. And I think this same mistake was made when Small Giant made ascension items ridiculously hard to find.

Also, some other questions. What is going on with Wu-Kong? Can we get a transparent answer about the changes that have been made to him? Am I imagining them? Are others imagining them? Sure, we could speculate all day about it, but wouldn’t it be easier to offer a clear explanation as to why one of the best heroes in the game appears to have taken on some sort of change?

Let’s talk beta.

Recently, there has been an abrupt shift in beta policy, in which people were scrambling to undo what used to be a loose policy on talking about beta content. What is the policy exactly? Why is there no Non-Disclosure Agreement in writing that clearly states what we can and can’t share in beta? Why does the sudden change of heart about beta details and its sharing, end with what one can be interpreted as a veiled threat via forum post.

I’m a concerned player. I’m also the leader of the largest community in the game. I’d like to think my voice carries some weight. And I hope the same effort I took to write a civil post about reasonable concerns, won’t be taken lightly.

Sincerely,
Avicious
Founder of Seven Days


Pay to Win?
#2

Whether to consider it heading towards p2w depends only on your goal.

I can enjoy competitive battles at any level of strength (even alliance wars are supposedly fair).
I’m fine with not being able to keep up with the forerunners as long as I have plenty of challenge suited to my level.

But… if you are aiming for a stable position in top100… well… then I guess it has to be considered p2w.
Gladly, you still have to be active and do some proper raiding. It’s not just “whoever throws the most money automatically becomes #1 for the month”. Unlike in typical browser-based MMOs.


#3

If we compare non-premium specials with premium ones then yes, it is clearly pay to win.

What I mean by saying this?

Simply that the heroes you can earn without in game currencies (:gem:) have the most basic effects and that seems there’s no intention of make them be on equal ground with premium ones.
The only exceptions are Boldtusk, Kiril and Wu Kong, that have an effect worthy of a true 4* hero (epic heroes for instances, not wannabe heroes).

Bonus mention for HOTMs, that could be earned with epic tokens (opposed to the unability of them to summon event’s heroes).

There are other heroes who could be considered good but if compared with premium ones it would be pretty clear that the former heroes were left behind… into the power creep canyon.


#4

And what does “win” mean? @Brobb has spent less than less on this game than Starbucks charges for a latte yet has gotten to top 100 in the leaderboard. @Wharflord won the Epic event last month using only two non-TC20 Hero, Falcon and Triton (and Triton could easily have been replaced by another Grimm).

I run two accounts, one with a large budget, the other with a small one. I enjoy both, differently. They are both in active successful alliances where I enjoy playing around with my mates. They both contribute meaningfully to their teams. Both are “winning” on the terms I care about, even though Kerridoc could easily overpower my alt’s team.


#5

I don’t get these rants. Have you never played a mobile game before? Every game there’s a pay 2 win strategy. You ALWAYS have players who spend and players that spend an absurd amount to be in the top tier of players. I don’t get why people can’t understand that. SG puts out a game to make money like any and every business. Obviously there are different formulas for success but SG has used this one. Stop complaining and start enjoying the game or just quit. It’s that easy.


#6

@Kerridoc “winning” is subjective for everyone but for PTW it is common to associate it to advantages who you can’t likely have without paying.

@GERATH while it is crystal clear that an in game microtransactions APP is to make money this doesn’t mean that peoples can’t voice their opinion about the competitive aspect of the game, hero balance and paying advantages.

And the shut up and play or go home blah blah is not exactly a new line, I think we could easily stop with that.


#7

@FraVit93 I get it. I guess they should start handing out participation trophies as well lol. I kid, but the players that spend money are looking to have some kind of “advantage” in the game. If not then why spend any money at all. If you’re spending money on a game it’s to gain a competitive edge over players who don’t spend money or as much. Hero balancing is so over blown it seems most of the time. Every game there’s always hero(s)that are “meta”. Not always by design but the mechanics of the game at that point in time make them who they are.


#8

I don’t see the game heading for pay to win.

I do see feature requests heading for pay to win, like the recurring requests for trading between players.

I do not see these feature requests honoured.

For which I’m grateful.

… it sounds to me as if the game fails to be pay to win, in spite of the expectations of multiple people.

For which failure I’m grateful.

I’m less grateful for those expectations though. Is there anything we can do about those expectations?


#9

For your quoted part I could mention @Fantastic (if I don’t recall wrong!?) case, where he said that the low chances were not preventing the game from being PTW but it were only raising the amount of cash needed to achieve the desired outcome.


#10

By “only raising the amount of case needed to achieve the desired outcome”, the game fails to be pay to win for the referenced “multiple people in the community”.


#11

Limited time 5’s outnumber the regular ones about 2:1. Some of the supposed biggest spenders of the game have said on this forum in some way that these heroes need to be available to everyone. SGG is making it available again by summons. :sweat_smile:

I hope they have plans of including some of these limited time heroes in TC20. Especially the old ones. The chances of getting a specific 5* is so low anyway.


#12

This is becoming a witch hunt. Simple fact of the matter is that the community will never be satisfied but never the less SG is continuing to support the game as much as possible. It isnt pay to win; it is pay for a CHANCE to win a hero who you still have to level, have the ascension materials for, have strong troops to use, and have multiple strong heroes to support. Even still, no amount of money will affect the raid board.

My suggestion is for people to try to leave constructive feed back in the hopes that SG finds it AND STOP CRYING ABOUT EVERYTHING. Cheers.


#13

i will have to just confirm that i said the game is already paid to win and it just require more money than other p2w games but i also said all games are p2w other wise why anyone would pay ?

but im sorry im not going to enter another post on this forum discussing things thats so clear to everyone.


#14

Could you clarify the post above a bit though, Fantastic? I’m not exactly sure what your sentences mean there. Honestly. :thinking:


#15

Subjective or not, let’s just say that as time pass by i became less competitive in every aspect of the game rather then more.
I play in the same way like before and people have always 5* heroes, not 6*.
And this is objective.

Then you can talk about targets and goals, that people can be happy and have fun the same way.

Of course people can, same as you can be happy with a vanilla ice cream if chocolate is ended.
Or strawberry? I mean… Pick your flavor.
But not as happy when chocolate still was there.


#16

Chocolate ice cream is the worst ice cream.


#17

Well, ok then. Re-opened now but please post polite and provide data as proof for Brobb. Otherwise the thread will go in false direction again…

THX!!


#18

The game is heading to more monetization. That much is obvious. Loads of new heroes with exciting more powerful abilities and most of them very hard to obtain for F2P/C2P players.

How that affects you, the player, depends on how you, personally, define “Win”. I strongly recommend you to define your personal “Win” in a way that fits your budget for this game and your personal playing habits.


#19

If the non-beta players could have a bit more of an idea what is heading their way it would be more easy to make choices.

Let me calrify that:
We know there is a Halloween event coming, but no clue what hero’s we maybe can pull.
We know there will be Atlantis summons, but no clue what hero’s we maybe can pull.
If there would be something that makes clear what to expect the F2P (or small spending) players can choose their summons and hope they get the hero’s they would like / need the most.
I am spending very little in this game and it take me a long time to accumilate the needed gems to make summons but am always hesitant because of not knowing what is behind the next door and if this maybe a better new hero for my team…


#20

Experience has taught me that it’s better to expect nothing, in regards to 10x summons. That way you’ll welcome that one 4 star you’ll get and feel okay about feeding the 9 3 stars to the rest of your heroes.

Let’s face it: those events and summons aren’t there for F2P/C2P players to gather new 5 star heroes, the odds aren’t in our favour.

I -am- looking forward to the Halloween event though. But that’s because it’ll give me a shot at some ascension materials, so I can progress what I’ve got.

The spiffy new 5 star heroes are just like supercars. Nice to look at but I’ll never own one. And because of how I defined my personal “Win” for this game, the cool thing is I don’t need to own one. And I’m defeating players that do have these “supercars” in raids on a daily basis.