Is Leonidas viable now?

heroes

#1


Leonidas - special damage increased from 350% to 360%, special mana reduction increased from -25% to -40%

Is he viable now?
Speed is still “Average” though. What do you guys think?


#2

Needs fast mana to be viable. Makes the mana cut and leech so much more usable.


#3

Nope, not yet.
Less bad but still bad.


#4

It’ll be great for raids with the boost to 40% mana.


#5

Not at all, 3 tiles fill almost 40% mana for average heroes


#6

There’re two ways to look at this:

  1. If you had all the 5* yellow standard heroes, in what order would you ascend them?
  2. If you had only Leonides and didn’t do many summons, would you ascend him?

Let’s start with #1.

  • Compare to Joon, who does 468% single-target with a slightly higher Att stat and blinds for 6 rounds, fast mana. Joon is doing a significant amount more damage-per-tile, and blind effectively steals 100% of mana about half the time (on offensive spells) by causing a complete miss. Yes, Leo gets some HP back, but that skill is greatly overrated in my experience.
  • Compare to Justice, who does 220% damage on all targets and blinds for 4 rounds, slow mana. Justice is possible the most durable hero in the game, a big plus in raiding. Low attack doesn’t make her useful against titans, though.
  • Compre to Vivica, most thorough healer in the game. Not only heals everything but puts up a power generalized +Def.

So in my book, Joon and Vivica are still way out in front of Leo. Justice is better at what he does (survive raids) than Leo’s attack in winning raids. Maybe the extra mana steal can be used strategically to delay a key foe’s cast (don’t cast, Alberich, until Marjana’s magma DoT burns you down!) but Leo’s average mana makes it hard to use this one-hero effect strategically. So, I think Leo is still at the bottom of the 5* yellow bucket (leaving aside Guardian Owl).

Now, what if you only had Leo, you don’t draw very often, and you’re debating about whether to ascend him. Leo is basically Chao with HP recovery, so let’s compare them.

Chao (4/70): 607 Att, 675 Def, 1115 Health; fast mana. Deal 305% damage to a single enemy and reduce their mana by 25%
Leo (3/70): 614 Att, 604 Def, 1027 Health; average mana. Deal 360% damage to a single enemy, reduce their mana by 40%, steal back a moderate amount of dealt damage

So (at third ascension) Leo hits harder, steals more mana (after the change), and gets some HP back; Chao has much better durability and is fast mana. I probably lean towards Leo between these two because of the higher impact and the option to ascend him eventually.

What about that other mana stealer, Li Xiu?

Li Xiu (4/70): 616 Att, 665 Def, 1098 Health; average mana. Deal 150% damage to all enemies and reduce their mana by 25%
Leo (3/70): 614 Att, 604 Def, 1027 Health; average mana. Deal 360% damage to a single enemy, reduce their mana by 40%, steal back a moderate amount of dealt damage

So Li has the same strength and mana speed as Leo, but is tankier. She hits all targets; total damage done is light, but the mana reduction is brutal because spread so widely. (She reduces mana more than Guinevere!). I think the balance tips for Li Xiu, but there’s a principled argument in favor of Leo.

Wu Kong is still far, far more valuable than Leo now. Hu Tao (Justice Jr) serves a different role (and not very well).

So, bottom line: I’d ascend any other 5* first and Wu; then maybe Li, before giving any rare mats to Leo.


#7

Exactly my thoughts I’d be too lazy to elaborate around, and with all those mentioned aside, Leo has the worst design of them all too…


#8

Then its good to know that defenders can’t drop tiles :ok_hand:


#9

Still a waste of mats, but we’re still fighting for him to be properly fixed by whining on the beta forums (okay, FINE, I’m whining, others are providing educated valuable feedback :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye: ).

One day, my dude, one day…


#10

I’ve pencilled him in for May 2021, about when I’ll have finished getting the mats for Joon, Guinevere, Vivica, Justice and Delilah and leveling them up.


#11

You have to test him to understand.

Really, stick to Gan Ju.


#12

He isn’t viable at all even with good attack, defense and life stealing skill?
His damage & self heal/survivability is bad even when paired with Boldtusk’s or Ares special or his defense bad with Magni’s special?

To me it have solid stats, his special can be pretty good to save the day and the mana reduction part could be what will keep Zeline at bay to not make Team’s damage drop with the attack debuff.

Maybe it’s only the 300’s fan in me that its talking but I don’t see him as a bad hero.


#13

Thank you all so much for your answers!
Especially @Kerridoc, because it’s like you said:

I just have Leo and Sartana.
After reading your post I’ll keep my ascension items and wait for either Vivicia or Joon.


#14

Far from me to prevent you to use him if you like it.
Enjoy your dards :slightly_smiling_face:


#15

His defense is negligible, he’s not tanky enough to be a tank, dies just as easily as Joon, and has no respectable utility that is required of tanks - look Ares, Guin, Hel, Li, Boldtusk etc. They either gimp enemy team severely or keep your frontline going while buffing the damage of your team.

His attack is okay, but it doesn’t blow anyone’s pants off so he cannot be THE yellow to take for titan battles if you’ve got nice tile-damage buffers.

Life stealing skill is absolutely useless and that’s the problem.

His special damage is low which makes him a bad choice for raids - defense and offense alike.

His speed is average and yet he deals massively smaller damage than Joon, who is fast.

Reducing mana by 40% on a single target is just ‘meh’. Look how fast titan/enemies in raids stack their mana. Champions like Li or Guin cut it across the board which can gimp attackers when they’re on defense. Cutting mana by 40% on a single target? Cmon.

If he was a fast hero that cuts mana by 100% then we can talk about him being a viable choice for attack/titans. The lifesteal can just get removed, I don’t think anyone would care. Some may rejoice, as he’d get some of his power budget back.


#16

Lol, this is now your personal crusade Elilea :rofl:


#17

While it isn’t the best yellow attacker (wich I never said it was) it’s far from be a bad hero:

His defense isn’t low and while it shouldn’t be in a central position its great as 4rd hero, to protect the 5th striker, regaining health back (from random tiles and AoE specials) and keeeping himself in a ok-ish shape.
Even if isn’t as offensive as Joon it have way more defense and its harder to kill (to prevent “the best CC is death” approach, it don’t die as easily as other strikers).

The 40% mana reduction is for tacticians, to snipe tank’s and healer’s mana, preventing heal/buff and cut trough HP.
With such stats and effects its clear why it can’t have things as fast mana, 100% mana reduction effects, %specials damage as Joon or effects like limited edition heroes as Ares or Gwin (way more powerful than any other hero).

For titans damage is king, and other heroes are clearly better than him.

For raids its 30% luck and 70% tattics, here Leonidas could be pretty powerful as a off tank/striker (defense) or Healer killer (attack).


#18

I still think a move to fast mana would cure most of what ails him. Even if they drop the leech to 25% or something and keep the 40% reduction.


#19


#20

I just raided someone with Leonidas, and I have to say. Mmmmm, he’s still kinda weak for a 5* hero. I mean. It’s so much time and effort to ascend these guys all the way that for him, I still don’t think you’re getting your “moneys” worth…I will say, that I totally forgot they buffed up his hit on mana. Man that was soooo annoying. He’s getting there though. Maybe better defense and a bit more punch on the offense might make him worth the time…BTW, he was the first one I killed :rofl: