Is fixing gravemaker on the agenda


#103

I find Gravemaker overrated.

Or worded better, he doesn’t stand a chance against my team. And the best part is, there’s no HoTM in my team. Just TC material and only two 5 stars. And yet this team eats him for breakfast.

Why?

There’s Boldtusk and Isarnia, who I fire off simultaneously, to pack enormous punches. When these two are active, tiles hit so hard. So that’s the time when I send stuff on Gravemaker’s head. He might die or survive and fire his special.

That’s when there’s Rigard, who disables the DoT.

And Caedmon, who with or without the help of tiles finishes off Gravemaker.

In emergencies there’s Justice, who can take a beating and will dish one out, but often Gravemaker is dead before she fires. But after she fires, misses don’t give DoT’s. Blind is nice against Gravemaker.

Also having two healers means I can survive Gravemaker firing twice, which happens quite often when I fight him.

But it’s not all about the team. Also, my puzzling strategy might be somewhat different than what most of you do. I see a lot of folks focussing on one color to fire off this or that hero. Or focussing on this or that area of the board to hit this or that opponent hero or avoid one. Or focussing on ghosting.

And that sounds like common sense. It does! It sounds like strategy. It is!

And I use these strategies myself as well, but they are not my first priority. My first priority is dropping as much tiles as high on the board as possible. Get those diamonds going. More damage and more mana. Who gives a hoot if Gravemaker is activated, when 3 of my heroes are activated as well and he’s near dead.

And the best part is, if you play your tiles like this, often you’ll see the board ‘sort itself’ by color. To create more diamonds, you need to create diamonds first. And you don’t get many diamonds by doing turn after turn of 3 tiles here, 3 tiles there. You want 6 tiles and combo’s flying off them. The higher up in the board the better.

TL;DR: stop complaining about Gravemaker, start improving your play. I’m not arrogant. I’m not condescending. I’m serious. This. works.


#104

GM is the new age tank. He is a destroyer and not a battleship like Ares.

Kill before killed. Thats the motto of new age tanks.

I hate GM more than Guin. Doom Train has 3 of them maxed in his def team. Of course putting so many of him in a team is more of a liability rather than an asset. And please dont nerf him. I plan on getting him when he appears on Atlantis.


#105

When you see so many Gravemakers you only culd think that the ones with Aeron would attack him 100%. And if he got 3 copy of Gravemaker the ones with 2 Aerons…

Aeron were the dark hero that I wanted the most but I weren’t so lucky.
On the other hand I tried my hardest to get Gravemaker and I got it! :wink:


#106

Bump

2@ charactersssss


#107

I think they really ought to consider removing the extra damage to nature as it’s extremely limiting to the type of team you can bring. Not so big a deal with raids, but in alliance wars, at the top, we see 26/30 defenses with Gravemaker and as he comes back into Atlantis summon periodically, it will only get higher until it’s 30/30 and it will filter down to more alliances having a huge % with Gravemaker. Emblems will only make it worse as he’s far and away the best Barbarian.

Sure, you can have a Rigard, or Viv, or Zim charged, but even if you do, you’re still taking the initial damage + extra damage plus one turn of sick burn before you can cleanse and it’s crushing vs nature heroes. I feel it’s too strong of damage for a very fast hero and greatly limiting to using Green heroes successfully.


#108

Too bad that Aeron & Rigard aren’t sorcerers, they could have partially solved Gravemaker and Guinevere’s problem by slowing their mana gain.
No useful purple or blue sorcerers, I hope they’ll add some more core heroes to address class’ distribution problems.

If the extra damage to nature were to be removed I hope that non-fighters heroes’ resurrection mechanics would be removed from the game.


#109

Yea, he’s not broke…no fixing needed


#110

Time for some facts boys and girls. Whether or not Gravemaker is overpowered or broken, it’s undeniable that Gravemaker is the best hero in the game and the most centralizing one. My informed opinion of him - which I will state as a fact - is that he’s overcentralizing. Here are the facts to back that up:

This report was generated on January 30th, 2019. At that moment, this is what the stats for the top 15 used heroes in defense teams looked like in the top 100:

Now… we have talked about GM being beatable, and we’ve had previous examples showing that. But again, that’s not what I’m arguing. I’d like to continue with the last question I posed in this thread: Is Gravemaker centralizing to the metagame?

Centralizing here means that he has a lot of influence over which heroes are good and which ones are not. And to me, yeah it is certainly looking like that, and it’s not even close. Gravemaker at the number #1 spot has a pretty wide gap from #2; nearly 15% usage, compared to Alasie at almost 9% usage. Whereas the gap between Alasie, Zeline, and Guinevere (the other in the top 4) is much smaller in comparison.

Even if he’s beatable, he’s still difficult to beat. Without describing his abilities (as that’s already been done), the stats here would otherwise not show so many of them in the top 100 if he was as straightforward to beat as some here are claiming. That is obviously not happening.

I took the liberty here to highlight the top 4 heroes, and lo and behold; Gravemaker is the only hero who is found in every single spot in a team!

And it doesn’t end there either. He’s so good at any role, that he’s duplicated in 9 teams on 2 spots:
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So yeah, he may not be the best tank or flank or winger… but seriously, who cares? He can do well in any spot, and that’s something you can’t say for any other hero. Having him means that you can fully shut your brain off and not think about where he is positioned. Just put him anywhere and you’re guaranteed to hold trophies. He can do any role so well, he’s worth including over other heroes who could’ve fulfilled that role.

This is what leads me to believe he’s overcentralizing. Inevitably, the farther you climb the leaderboard, the less likely it’ll be that you will avoid Gravemaker. It means too that if your bench of heroes does not include one that can help you deal with Gravemaker, then you’re going to have a much harder time climbing the ranks. This is even more vital in wars… if you run out of heroes that can deal with Gravemaker, then you will have a harder time getting points.

TL;DR
Gravemaker’s beatable, sure he is. But only if you have the resources to do so. Your personal allegories only prove that. What all of the above I wrote says, is that even with teams that can beat him, Gravemaker is one of the heroes that is inevitably shaping the metagame: right now, Gravemaker is the biggest deciding factor for what heroes are viable and which ones are not.

EDIT: I’d like to point out that this doesn’t mean he should be nerfed or anything. I just wanted to prove that he’s the best hero in the game with some stats. The fact that he’s overcentralizing does explain why he is requested to be “fixed:” not because he’s unbeatable, but because he alone has a big impact on shaping the metagame. If he’s nerfed, it would mean that other heroes may rise higher, which wouldn’t necessarily be a good thing either…


#111

GVM has to get down to fast yes or yes, since unlike gin they have placed it in a useful class, in a few months it will be absolutely decisive. And unlike others, Gin, Zeline, etc, for some strange reason because he has not come back to Atlantis, there are hundreds, used 2 in 2 and 3 in 3. It will break the game.


#112

While i agree that Gravemaker is a great hero wherever you put him (probably the best togheter with Kageburado) i do not agree at all that you must have a counter against him.

My normal team against a Gravemaker tank is the usually 3-2 formation without any cleanser (Athena-Isarnia-Kiril-Sartana-Hel).
I do have Rigard and Vivica, but i don’t bother to take them with me, and even without them i have a really high winning rates.
And to be clear, my highest troop is at 15.

So yeah, Gravemaker have the really great advantage to do his work done no matter where you place him, but he is far from be the “must counter him” hero.


#113

Theyre not going to nerf Guin or Zeline, so no chance they’re going to nerf Gravemaker. I don’t think we see any nerfs anymore, only other heroes brought up to be in line with the new ones theyre releasing.

If Guin or Kage were more accessible, you’d see morenof thise in defenses than GM.


#114

He’s not the most powerful in the game at ANY position, but he is one of the most versatile for sure.


#115

Looking back at this thread I agree heroes should not get nerfed

I have kage and definitely think he’s op especially with panther on raids but I definitely would not want him to get nerfed

Same goes for grave


#116

Athena seems to be created to snipe Gravey. Sadly she is not fast. Helpful if she was. I’d like to see Athena balanced to fast mana. Then she would be GMs (wet :rofl:) nightmare…


#117

Let’s keep it family friendly… :slight_smile:


#118

Athena was created a year before grave m8


#119

Yes, I know. Afterwards she had been made fast or even very fast as opposite to GM.


#120

A very fast Athena? lol…


#121

I didn’t mean to say that he is a “must counter” hero when fighting him specifically. That isn’t what I meant if it came out that way. I meant to say he is one of the heroes which defines who can play in the monkey bars and which ones will get shoved off them (so to speak…) by the sole virtue of his presence and versatility. This applies to both attacking and defending.

He’s not the only either. I didn’t nor wouldn’t say that… I recognize there’s others in the playground too. But he just happens to be the most popular, so by virtue, he’s going to be the one that is kept in mind the most… whether you’re preparing to raid someone with him on defense, or when you’re changing up your raid / war defense teams.

On Kage; since this list came out January, I would assume Kage still has ways to go before more have him maxed. He’s an equally ridiculous hero though, and I expect that when players get him, they’ll begin to use one or both of them on their teams. This will probably cause GM’s popularity to go down, but only because another fun hero came along to help him.

Again though, I don’t want these heroes to be nerfed or anything. I think nerfing GM could (“COULD” meaning this is just theorizing) make heroes like Zeline, M. North/Alberich and Evelyn more dangerous than they already are. I don’t think we all want that necessarily… I do admit that his ability helps keep them in check.


#122

Yep, I did say that in my post. He’s not the best flank, tank, nor winger… but at the end of the day he can still succeed in any area that’s needed. It’s that versatility to me that pushes him as the best hero in the game.

IMO any hero who can be versatile is a good hero. It helps with teambuilding so much. I wouldn’t be surprised if Kage rises up more once more and more start maxing him.