Is fixing gravemaker on the agenda


#83

I think you’re the first person to address the real reason that this argument (like so many others) persists. Semantics. I think everyone here can agree that Gravemaker is better than the average hero. They differ in where they draw the line differentiating between merely “above average” and “overpowered.”

I don’t feel strongly enough to argue either way, however I will say this: if any hero is so strong that he/she/it becomes the default option then, in my opinion, they are in need of a fix. Players should have choices in who they fill out their teams with. Gravemaker’s overwhelming usage in the top 100 suggests to me that he might be in need of a fix.

What I’d really like to see though, in terms of data to determine his OPness, is what percentage of players with 4/80 gravemakers are using them on their defense teams. I sometimes wonder if the only reason he’s not used on more teams is because they don’t have him.


#84

Gravemaker isn’t the best choice in a disproportionate number of situations, which would be OP. HOWEVER, he IS somewhere between above average and best in almost any situation, unlike pretty much any other hero I can think of who is relatively weak or at least ‘meh’ in some area or other.

He was my first red 5* that I maxed. Given his all-around utility, if you have him as a choice as your first red 5* to max, you won’t go wrong the same choice, because at this point in the game, you need to fill all the roles, and he does so many of them well. With two other red 5* heroes maxed, he might not fill the gap in your roster you wish to fill.

GM’s weakest area is against titans, and he’s not awful there; he fills out my red team against green titans but doesn’t come along otherwise; I’ve got other heroes that are worse than him against titans.

And no, he’s not excessively hard to counter. (Ex: Guin tanks)


#85

This is all very interesting… I have to say that I don’t think that GM is OP and this is the story why…

One rather vocal member of the forums ranked Gravemaker as a tank as follows:

So she feels that a used baby wipe is more of a threat than GM… maybe quit feeding babies curry… Anyway, because of this I tested GM (along with other heroes) in the tank position. Based on my 15 days of data collection, as a tank and I found him/her rather comparable to either Delilah or Aeron. Zeline was a bit lower on the tanky-side of things that the others.

So I quit using GM as a tank and moved back to Delilah. I would image that if GM was in fact OP, the data would have shown a HUGE advantage to using him as a tank.


#86

did you keep the same lineup everytime and just tested a different hero from the lineup in tank position or were there lineup changes as well?(did you swap any heros in or out is what I’m asking)


#87

I swapped them around a little… it is all documented in that post that i linked.


#88

Gravemaker is a popular tank because SG refuses to release another viable tank as long as Guinevere is around in her current form.

Delilah holds cups better than Gravemaker does for me. Say what you want. And she is a “B” tank.


#89

A couple of thoughts.

  1. I dislike facing Delilah in tank more than Gravemaker, who I seek out, but I recognise that I’m an exception. It’s possible that Delilah holds cups better for you because she tempts weaker players into trying their luck, and collects points from them. GM might scare off all but those who are very confident they can beat him. (Just an idea, that, and if I turned out to be right you could argue that makes Delilah an even better tank.)

  2. @SkiParty did the work on this and posted the results. (I should get back to quibbling about them, though I feel like maybe it’s been too long, now.) If you felt like it, you could do the same - I’d be really interested to see what you found by repeating the same sort of trial. There’s no reason you should do this, of course - it would be an inconvenience to you and you stand to gain nothing. But, you know, it would add to our collective knowledge.


#90

As I understand it, SG is not refusing to release another sweet tank (talk about dollars for them)… but struggling to find an alternative to Guinevere that doesn’t double suck for the attack teams when combined with Guinevere…

Awesome New Tank > Guin

Awesome New Tank + Guin >>> Awesome New Tank > Guin

Which would mean there would be a lot of upset raiders out there.


#91

And because of that and because of his refusal to nerfe Geneva, the rest of us have to ■■■■ with a mutilated Aegir. Justice? so that this company is going to be fair.


#92

Gravemaker is very beatable with right heroes and a decent board as the first board was bad and still came close

And every raid I do I use Gravemaker with Wilbur + 3 color stacked against tank I was just ranked number 4 globally the other day I don’t have the defense/troops to hold that spot but I do have the offense to get there which I enjoy


#93

Well played

Also m8 no one is saying gravemaker is unbeatable

Every hero is beatable with the right heroes and board

It’s just that no other red can compare to the damage that he can do


#94

Happy Forum Anniversary, @Denys


#95

It were a hard fight but you did well


#96

not true. they just dont do it as quickly because of his mana speed and multi target special. I’m actually more threatened by marjana than gravemaker to be honest. it doesnt take much longer for her to go off and in the right team it can hurt a lot worse


#97

I agree, this hero is overpowered!


#98

There are a number of heroes that worry me more than GM. All of this may come down to the team you have and how you use them.


#99

Every hero is beatable with the right heroes or boards for that matter. GM is fine. Leave him be. You nerf one hero you have to starting going down that rabbit hole now of nerfing others …


#100

GM is only a threat as a tank. Every raid match I do seems to be against him or Guin. And even though I don’t think Guin is as all powerful as people cry, I’ll face GM over her anytime. I know I’m going to take at least one if not two flamethrowers to the face, but I can beat him.

Tanks are going to tank and the frustration with them started as soon as you fought at a level where people knew what a tank is. I cursed at Kahhrek plenty of times.


#101

I’ve had way more trouble with Kashrek than Gravemaker (as a tank at least). What’s scary is a Guin tank with a Gravemaker flank, but I blame Guin for that one…

Nerfing any tanks other than Guin while leaving Guin alone seems like a bad idea. We need more tank options, not less.


#102

I need your guys defense then. Being very fast attack his DoT can wreck a team if you can’t get him down quickly