Riposte to heroes next to him would just make him an upgraded version of Cyprian… boring.
I agree he needs a buff though. I think simply upping this counterattack by a substantial amount would make him an interesting hero. Still wouldn’t be great as an attacker, but would make him a hero you actually need to be wary of.
@zephyr1 Hey buddy, would you please spend just a bit of time reading this post? I’m sure that being one of only a few moderators is a tough job and I really appreciate your time amd effort to keep the forum civilized and ordered, however I will really appreciate it if you read further down
I understand that the ultimate desicion regarding where this topic belong rests in your hands, however I don’t think it was a good idea to merge those 2 topics together. I’ll state my case here for your consideration:
This topic holds a rethorical and somewhat demanding title, which displeases me as I wanted a more civil discussion;
The steucture of the OP’s original message holds a similar tone, suggested by the use of double ?? and triple !!! . Combining those two, I would generally regard the topic as an unnecessary “noise” that I personally would’ve locked, as even if it sits in the “Ideas and future requests” it actually holds almost no ground for any kind of discussion, nor does it ‘really’ provide any kind of actual suggestion, but, to my estimation, is just a somewhat unpleasant echo of a recently implement changes. My apologies to the OP if I misconstrued his intentions.
Just by those two points, it seems to me that, my actual desire for discussion will be burried by the characteristics of the original post, which I believe is a reasonable speculation on my side, and I would dislike if this happens, to the extent that my opinions and speculations hold any water at all.
To the extent that I and the other participants in my original topic suggested some changes to Obakan, I do not think that my topic belonged to this section of the forum, but rather to its original place in the Discussion part of the boards.
I did chose the Discussion section because I wanted to hold a debate on wheather Obakan actually needs a change according to the E&P general population. I admit that I have chosen a rather catchy title the reflects my personal viewpoint regarding Obakan’s usefulness (or lack thereof) in his current state, but at the same time I’ve actually wanted someone to confront this opinion so we can have a meaningful discussion.
Considering my last point, I think that the arguments that were given by the participants (including myself) in my original topic, resulted in some interesting suggestions, but without reaching a consensus of what would be considered some well-rounded, definitive alternatives for Obakan’s skill set. If we’ve reached some proper conclusions, I would’ve been more than happy to post a topic within the Ideas section.
In any case, I hope you read this and de-merge the topics, or if not I would love to hear the reasoning behind your stance on the matter. I know I’ve been a bit too wordy with this post, but I wanted to stand my case as clearly as possible to avoid any confusions. If you decide on staying firm on your initial desicion, but warrant me with a response as well, there’s no need of going to the extents I did with my arguments
Take care and thanks again for your efforts to keep the forum lean and clean
I really like the idea of a very fast mana classic hero, and I think making this change to Obakan could be a great solution to his currently underwhelming kit
Your other suggestion is also great
@Rduke77 - I would love to have a discussion regarding your opinion on the matter!
From my perspective, I really think he is the worst 5 star to spend materials on, granted that there are few that are in the same neighborhood, though I still think he is the worst even amongst those. Many 5 stars were previoualy put in the same basket, but were subsequently buffed - Boss Wolf, Elena, Khagan, Elkenen, Kadilen, Thorne come to mind. He is the only one left, and from most, if not all, people that I’ve asked, I hear that he is just a waste of materials, unless you are strictly F2P and he is the only choice you have, and that is only due to the fact that he is a somewhat marginal improvement over most 4 stars due to stats, and there is only one classic purple 4 star damage dealer (Tiburtus, with the other purples being Cyprian, Rigard and Sabina)
To the extent that all heroes can’t be great, I really disagree with your statement that he is actually decent. His special special skill doesn’t have any particular niche that it can be actually useful within, or at least I can’t think of one.
Also, you said there are worse heroes than him, but again I fail to see any such heroes. Maybe, and that’s a huge maybe, Boss Wolf? And you have to appreciate that this is the case only because Boss Wolf has a pretty complex design which is hard to balance - to the best of my knowledge he was nerfed hard from beta to live by reducing his mana speed from Slow to Very Slow, as he was otherwise overwhelming to deal with. Other examples may include the one of 3 rng specials, but those have in my opinion very special place in the game and are very useful but situational. Could you give your examples of 5 star heroes that you consider actually worse than him?
In my eyes, Obakan has pretry mediocre stats and a special skill that doesn’t have a single niche where it can be used to achieve any meaningful and consistent results. He has only one positive trait - being a fast mana hero - but ultimately this trait is only theoretically positive, and becomes void in practice due to above stated facts. He is a variation on the good (mana speed),the bad (mediocre stats) and the ugly (bad special skill), in the most negative sense. I just really can’t see by what means and in which situations you see him, even remotely, as a decent 5 star hero.
As a final remark, I’d like you to think about the fact that he is a classic 5 star hero (tc20), and even if he is better than some other non classic heroes, and while previously he shared his status with some other 5 stars of the classic pack, currently he is the worst of its breed, and by no means a treat to any F2P player.
I’m all up to hear some counter arguments that could change my stance, so please do share your views
Well, it would make him an upgraded version of Cyprian and Boril in that regard, but he would be the only one to implement damage to the skill and will be on fast mana and on a 5 star, which is quite unique and neat, rather rhan boring imo.
The substantial amount of riposte % sounds an interesting concept, though not sure to what actual benefit will lead in practice, but it’s a nice idea nonetheless.
No problem, and I had read your whole original post, as well as the entirety of each of the replies, before merging too.
Merges are typically made with a fair bit of care and consideration.
It actually wasn’t clear from your original post that you were intending to hold a debate in particular, as opposed to making a suggestion, since neither your thread title nor your post asked for opinions.
You stated Obakan needs a buff, is the most underwhelming 5 star in the game, and suggested a specific buff.
If you’d used a thread title like, Should Obakan be Buffed? or Suggestions for Buffing Obakan – Share Your Thoughts or even just said in your post that you were looking for opinions and discussions, that intention would have been clearer.
You’ve done well making that intention clearer in subsequent follow-ups and engagement with commenters.
You also made some observations about this thread’s original message and title, which I’ve addressed with a rename of the thread to Increase Obakan’s Counter Attack or Make Other Buffs — Share Your Ideas & Discuss.
The #ideas-feature-requests is specifically for discussion of ideas, and it has the added benefit of supporting voting, and a longer lifespan for threads. It also has the precedence of hosting several threads specifically for debating whether a particular hero should be buffed.
It’s not necessary that the top post be the final and last thought on what the “idea” is.
The point is that someone starts with a topic or suggestion, and it’s discussed and refined.
Two readily obvious examples of extensive discussions in #ideas-feature-requests that we know got the attention of the devs are:
I also would have renamed it to at least include Obakan in the title, so people searching would have a better chance of correctly identifying what your thread was about.
I felt this particular conversation I merged into was recent enough and relevant enough that your post would productively contribute to the conversation — particularly because it was after the other recent buffs of heroes with counter attacks. It shares the same context and timeliness as your thread, as opposed to a thread from several months ago, which would have predated those buffs.
That’s the point of merging — to get more people interested in a particular topic into one place to discuss it, instead of having similar threads spread out. Anyone who was following the original thread gets notified, in addition to anyone from the new thread.
Merging also increases “thread rank,” as Discourse (the Forum software) uses aggregate views, likes, comments, and votes to determine those — which are all benefitted by merging.
We also know from experience that while SGG Staff rarely respond directly on the Forum, when they do, it’s most often in large-scale threads that were created through the merger of parallel topics. I take that as evidence that they, like many Forum users, make use of Discourse’s thread navigation tools to take note of threads with more engagement.
To come back to this again, it’s worth noting that #forum-rules explicitly prohibit publicly discussing or debating moderation decisions.
I’m actually far more tolerant of that than SGG Staff have instructed me to be, and have hosted a number of discussions about approaches to thread management and moderation that were technically in violation of the Forum Rules (including this one), and have been reminded of such before by Staff.
That said, discussions about moderation within a thread on another topic are highly distracting from the actual thread topic.
In the future, if you want to reach a moderator to ask a question, a better approach is to flag your own post using the “Custom” option, where you can type your message, and we’ll receive it privately, and can respond without derailing the thread.
I appreciate the appreciation, and thanks for taking the time to share your intentions about your thread, and to consider my response.
Obakan is a weak hero that should be fixed to level the playing field. Presently, this hero is not effective compared to heroes like Elena. Please make him: 1) reflect to flanks as well, or extend reflect to all allies; 2) make reflect percent same as 4* Cyprian at 125%; 3) change speed to very fast. This hero needs major improvement to be fun. Thanks!
Gotta say that Obakan need to get some love (sure thing, its not the only one - best regards to Quintus).
But as long as many new heroes popping up, Obakan seems to be left behind with no love at all.
I got it, not all the vanilla heroes can be Joon or Lianna, but still it would be only fair to give to minor buff at least here.
or make it 260 to target and nearby enemies (removing minor damage), either way will do the job done, without reaching some OP point.
Even raising counter damage amount to 135% - 150% will make me happy ^^
I agree. I think costumes may have washed their hands from actually buffing season 1 heroes. Obakan was my first ever 5* pull and I never levelled him fortunately from the info on this forum. That said, I pull his costume and I might have the bite the bullet and up him.