Costume Vent Chamber

The point of costumes?

A facade for your heroes;
But, more importantly, a facade for the community to pretend that power creep is being addressed.

Pull some wool over your heroes; pull some wool over your eyes.

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I can tell you the story of costumes.

Before costumes, we already experienced power creep. Good old S1 heroes started falling behind new, better event and new seasons. There was a pressure on SG to address that somehow. And idea for costumes was just that. The very first concept was - people can summon costumes at better odds than heroes, but need to have a hero first to use them. Chance for legendary costume, if I am not mistaken, was 5%. Pretty decent. But again, it came with no hero - so you pulled Horghall costume but had no Horghall? Jokes on you.

Sadly, SG messed up the first release. Biggest downside of the portal was lack of chance for HotM on it, and back then HotMs were still the backbone of rosters and many of them were must haves. On top of it, many players did not understand the point of the costume chamber and kept pulling there even though they did not have the heroes to use these costumes on. And then they complained they got ‘useless costume’! Imagine being a male, going to a lingerie boutique to buy yourself a bra, then complain to the seller that you have no boobies.

Anyways, “SG listened”. They pulled that version of the costume chamber and reworked to what we see now. So players do get the costume together with the original hero. How cool! But - the odds are cut down to the regular ‘legendary hero odds’, in the regions of 1%. Careful what you wish for, players? Apparently some were silly enough to think the 5% will be maintained when they ask SG to include the original hero. Jokes on them again.

As time went by, SG got more creative about the costumes. The original ones were just mere % and stat reworks. They were supposed to be cheap way to extra buff your hero in the end. But when the odds of getting costume were the same as those of getting new hero, why not make the costumes like new heroes? That’s when you got C Kadilen, C Marjana and stuff.

People saw the ‘costumes’ were actually new superheroes now so they put their money into the portal chasing them. Who wouldn’t like to upgrade their old, dusted Kadilen maxed in 2017 and last used in 2018 into a creature from enemy nightmares, and completely free of tonics! SG didn’t have to worry that by pulling superheroes on costumes people won’t pull elsewhere - in the end the odds were same bad, so same amount of people would fall into the money spending well. And when money arrived at the costume chamber, message for SG was “People Love Costumes And Pay For Them”.

Sadly, people who make the decisions about the game future, apparently know very little about the game and about what’s important to the players. They don’t look at community’s feedback and ideas, they only look at where the cash is coming from and that’s the main driver for where to develop the game. So the message SG read was “people pay for costumes so we need to create more costumes”. But they already ran out of S1 heroes. So, natural continuation would be to release the costumes for S2 heroes and further, right? It was also something that the players suggested in the feedback posts. But well again, with this game, you need to be careful what you wish for. Players thought those costumes would end up in costume chamber, which made them enthusiastic about it. SG went for two birds - one stone solution. They saw a decrease in sales in the old portals (Atlantis, Sand Empire, Legends, old events) so had to make those attractive again (again the SG’s litmu$ paper ‘if players are not paying money they must be very disappointed with that content’). Putting new costumes in old portals they attracted the addict whales back to the old portals where they didn’t have to pull anymore. At the same time, screw over all the ‘normal’ players who were lucky (or paid a lot) to get the non-costumed hero in the past.

So long story short - original concept for costumes was pretty much player friendly and healthy for the game. Few things required polishing (i.e. lack of HotM roll), but overall concept was decent. At better odds, refresh the player’s old roster to be more competetive against new heroes. After being given excuse to rework, SG scented money and the management is only after money. So few greedy decisions after that, we are where we are.

But then

What is the point of Costumes???

you ask. So the point is to take your money. They were completely unnecessary for the healthy evolution of the game after the original concept was dropped (5% pull chance but costume only, no hero). They exist only to attract you to pull where you otherwise wouldn’t.

(And if you ask me, when the cost and odds for pulling costume for Gravemaker is the same as the cost and odds for pulling on Season 5 or Clash of Knight or whatever new portal - it makes ZERO sense to pull for that costume. Even if C Gravemaker is a decent hero, it is way worse than new heroes. Why people pull for it anyway is a mystery. It’s against all the logic. Even if it’s a buff to the hero you have, you still won’t use Gravemaker anyway if you had Ruby etc.)

Thanks for reading.

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Wanted to launch into a smart rant about how unobtainable costumes are for those who really need them, but @Suicide_Bunny said it all with one sentence. The point of costumes is:

About Krampus getting a costume, I’ve said it long before Krampus was ever released. Costumes were the final blow for S1 heroes.

https://forum.smallgiantgames.com/t/final-blow-to-tc20-heroes/141603

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Sorry Suicide_Bunny,
I can not really agree with your bitterness. First a healthy degree of powercreep is unavoidable for the game to survive. The amount of powercreep can be discussed.
Costumes buff a hero without additional need for 4* mats. The game has to make money to survive!
Again the amount of money can be discussed, but if there are players willing to pay, no company in the world will reject them.
Is it better to spend hundreds of $ chasing Ruby or Octros than Gravemakers costume?

I dont think so.
Is uncostumed Graveemaker better if there was no costumed version, but another Ruby-like hero?

Again I dont think so. I encountered a few costumed Gravemakers and they are awsome, really playable.
Many complain about the lack of 4* mats, costumes adress this problem fir all who had the luck to summon ( and ascend) the base hero.

I do not understand the outrage, fdo you really want more Knights and Ninjas instead ?

Hapoy gaming

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^this

The only other thing that hasn’t been said is that there are some QOL aspects to costumes. They don’t take a roster spot. They take less to max out (both feeders and ascension materials).

They did create a number of QOL headaches at the same time (emblems, switching costumes, double leveling if you didn’t have the original, etc) that need to be noted.

It was either new heroes or new costumes. I’m not sure costumes are actually worse other than the psychological aspect that they’re different.

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I was here to tell the story of how the costume idea evolved into what we have now. Not really to then argue my point. But let me explain where I apparently didn’t say enough.

Of course, that’s why I viewed the original idea for costume release as pretty friendly. 5% odds to pull legendary costume but without the original hero. They still make some money, players have chance to pull buff for the hero they already own instead of a brand new strong hero but for better price. Win-win.

Please elaborate on this as that’s where we disagree. Gravemaker costume is rubbish compared to Ruby and let’s say Octros (I’m not an Octros fan here, but for the sake of argument let’s leave it). And odds to get him are worse than getting Octros. And it costs the same. So why is it better to pull for him?

We are getting more of Knights and Ninjas anyways. It would make sense if players had a choice - pull for brand new event heroes which is more expensive and odds are worse, or settle for costumes of the old heroes which are maybe less useful/have worse stats but are cheaper and easier to obtain. The game at the moment does not give such option. I am not against the power creep, and yes it’s necessary to survive, but SG pretends there’s no power creep at all; they still offer you old stuff at the same price as the new stuff even if in reality it’s worth so much less. And they know it’s worth less, as proven the way they priced the heroes in Soul Exchange tiers, they just refuse to adjust. And then no wonder why players come to the forum and ask what the point is - because there is no logic to all of that if you start thinking about it. Only logical explanation is to give an excuse for players to spend more money, because gameplay-wise and balance-wise there is hardly any purpose.

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Classic costumes

If you look at Beta Beat ( @zephyr1 @PlayForFun @Guvnor we are not worthy ), SGG has always struggled with costumes for Classic heroes

5* HotM

But the intent, from version 0.1 onward, has always been to add spend depth^

Soul Exchange

I never expect Soul Exchange to have all available costumes ( rumored to be several Beta tester suggestions, looking at you Gravemaker ) since live server costumes version 1.0 did not include the base hero

Devs want to have separate Merciless RNG for base hero and costumes, but the odds are so poor, especially for Classic heroes, ( rumored to be a beta tester warning ) it is very frustrating for even Whales

Instead Devs will use costumes in Exchange as an enticement for poorly received base heroes ( looking at you Horghall )

Evolving

In my personal opinion, Devs are not even close to done mucking around with costumes

Traditionally SGG copy other games, but with costumes they are experimenting with new techniques

Currently new techniques for annoying players but new techniques

Notes

Click for notes

Version 0.1+

(🧪 Early Information on Costumes (Formerly Skins) [Part of The Beta Beat v23, v24 & v25])

limited availability 5* costumes

(🧪 Early Information on ROUND 4 Costumes [Part of The Beta Beat v36])

Second HotM attempt

(🧪 Early Information on ROUND 1 of HoTM Costumes (Round 6 of costumes in general) [Part of The Beta Beat v42])

FIN

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Reasoning and evolutiuon of costumes aside… the biggest benefit of the costume chamber is 3* and 4* costumes. Literally every time you summon at the costume portal you get at a minimum an upgrade to an existing 3* (at lease in your early stages of pulling at the costume). Then - again at the relative early stages - every pull where you get a 4* costume you upgrade your existing 4* roster. These upgrades are huge (Refer to C Sabina and C Melendor for example - staples of rosters that drastically improve your chances of fighting at the upper diamond end of the spectrum). And those that are not useful in every day raiding and wars are still often an upgrade when it comes to the relevant tournies. And all are generally super easy, quick and cheap to level for players who already have them (most?),

5* costumes - they are few and far between but all the points that @Gimliv mentions are valid in this regard.

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I think where I am on it is that the classic costumes are great and worth having, whereas the newer ones aren’t enough of an upgrade ( or the original is still good enough without it eg Poseidon, LotL etc) to be worthwhile trying for.

I think they missed the boat by not starting with the worst of the older heroes such as Red Hood or G. Owl as the temptation to try get one of them to make the existing more relevant would Id have thought tempted more long-term c2p to spend.

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I think the game survived just fine when powercreeps had a "gradual" degree.
the… "healthy" degree,
feels more like cancer to me.


Thanks! You’re hypnosis is helping a bit.
Though… without the costume, my Lianna is having the opposite effect.
And because they take further leveling, I can’t call that "less." At the 5* level the additional development often includes a red button so you can re-adjust emblems.


This roster assumption keeps getting put out there. I have C.Mel but I also have 5* dispels at faster than average speed.
Unfortunately… I don’t have C.Sabina.
I’ll record my next 2 pulls that I farm up.

Hence my disposition…
These don’t seem like epic buffs to me
But rather, new epic cards,
Which many have paid for.

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At no point am I making any assumption. If you look outwards from your own circumstances and look at the wider view you will see that most players with 1+ year under their belt have a large number of S1 3s and 4s (regardless of FTP/CTP/P2P status). For them each 3* and 4* costume is absolutely an upgrade. A lof of players will never get certain heroes no matter how long they play (I personally don’t have C Grimm and probably a few other 4* costumes. I also don’t have non costume Viv or Khagan. RNG…) but that doesn’t have bearing on this point.

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Being honest, I think my disposition stems from having spent money. Which gave me the "huge advantage" that @Homaclese has with his C. Sabina. And that

For a time…
It did! Then I closed my wallet
While raids got more niche,
And my farmed pulls have yielded a single legendary (Blabar) in over a year. My epics are also nothing to brag about :pensive:
While TC20 has gifted few dupes closer to S.E.

After a time…
The word:

or RnG…Do become more of a live-and-die-by situation As @Yhc and others have observed.

So now, do I need to spend, again?
In order to "drastically" manage my exposure to the new:

No, I don’t think so.
I accept it as more challenging now :wink:

But as I watch S3 costumes get advertised and celebrated, I just can’t help but wonder what the point is…

That Costumes are some kind of
Frontage Road to Creep Highway?
which currently has a traffic jam…

I fail to see the positive
instead…see more of the same

The frontage road

will soon be a merge lane!

If it isn’t already…

Thanks anyway E&Peeps
:heart:’s to all

At first I thought costumes were a small (apparently stapes-sized) bone for f2p players to have a shot at playing around with their S1 heroes.

Now I see them as a blatant attempt to convert f2p to c2p (or worse) by hooking them to the power creep meta.

I will be plodding along at my own pace, hovering somewhere well below the whales and keeping my wallet closed.

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That was a rough read. It started off great tho

Good job! and thanks for sharing it.

Man… @ThePirateKing sure was full of doubt😂

Too bad it got derailed with the typical war against f2p and lectures from big spenders

They are made to take your money and to be used as an excuse for don’t buffing older heroes.

A double win for Zynga, a double spit in the face for players. Add usual.

Tough truth but nobody can say I’m lying.

Sir, this is a Wendy’s.

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I do not think Gravemakers costume is rubbish!
First you get a reasonable buff if you use the classic version, the costumed Version makes a lot of DoT, you need to bring a cleanser against him.
And the costume gives a mana buff. Even 1% percent can make the difference between a lvl11 and a lvl17 mana troop or the differente between lvl29 and lvl23 which is huge.
To fire one tile faster can made the difference between victory and defense. E. G. I use my costumed Vanda as an Alfrike counter in VF. If I get six red tiles, Alf is harmless. With six red tiles Vanda fires with a lvl11 mana troop, my Gefjon with Lvl23 and Alf is toast….

The mana boost from costumes can make the heroes stronger than their stats suggests.
Again if I had Gravemaker, the costumed version would be very welcome because I do not need 4* mats to ascend. If I got a different good red hero I neee the mats to use him. Even as a f2p I have much more 5 * heroes (48) than mats. I have ascended 25 5* with 3 more I am levelling. One ox the coleads of my alliance has 80 ascended 5* and more than 100 waiting.
4* mats are the limiting ressource in this game. Costumes are a mechanism to buff already ascended heroes, giving those who already have the hero some „ investment protection“.

Happy gaming

Didn’t say it’s rubbish, but that it’s rubbish compared to the heroes that were released at the same time it was and that cost the same as it does.

If you don’t like Gravemaker comparison, then compare Costume Seshat to Dark Lord or Francine Costume to Quenell or Costume Poseidon to Feline.

Again I am not saying these costumes are bad heroes, but that there is no point chasing them when you can chase at the same (or better) odds way better heroes.

We are in agreement there - they are and they should be; but they shouldn’t be priced the same as brand new hero. That’s the flaw in the whole concept at the moment. That’s why I liked the original release much better: you get the costume for hero you already own, without the hero, but cheaper than if you were pulling for a brand new hero. They could let you buy legendary costume directly for 2000 gems - it would make sense; they could let you pull for costumes at the same bad odds but for 100 gems per pull - it would make sense. But pulling costume for old benched hero to gain 5% more competetiveness against newest nasty heroes when you can just pull the newest nasty heroes to gain 50% more competetiveness doesn’t make sense. But then, many things in the game do not make any sense at the moment. There’s still an option to pull S1 heroes in the game for 2600 per 10 pulls, for instance. Need to accept it and move on, but will call it out when asked for opinion.

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When a costume is released:
Where is the “protection” for those who already have the hero?
Do you mean investment protection for just in case you ever pull the hero a second time???

What kinda mechanism is that?!?

image

Meanwhile…
Why are the costumes released at all?

Because they need a buff like Krampus did?

So those that…
Already have the hero get to watch Balance Updates in real time.
But remain nerfed…

Some protection!

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Yea apparently I copy pasted too much to my quote; fixed.

It’s 100% rubbish mechanism, especially that as I said, instead of pulling the same hero for the second time for it to become slightly better, you can just pull new hero and forget about the old one.

It’s like going to the shop looking to fix a 10 year old laptop and paying the same price for repair as you’d pay for a brand new one.

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