How is this normal? Raid / War Loss when I die from Counter Attack BUT all enemies are also dead

Imagine a fortress or a wall.

Imagine the wall is protected by heroes or guards.

Beyond the wall is a king.

Imagine you are attacking the fortress with your heroes.

Your mission is to capture the king beyond those walls and steal his wealth.

If you killed all the defenders on the wall, but your heroes died in the process, the defending team won because you weren’t able to march inside to capture the king and steal his loot.

They won because you didn’t achieve your mission of marching in to steal the loot and capturing the king. They prevented you from doing that.

Hope that makes sense.


Not really. You are trying to transpose this situation in real life. It’s not real life. It was a game fight between two teams. Nobody was left standing in the end. Who won? The problem is that the enemy got the cups for victory after all his heroes were down. On the other hand, the way you put it with the fortress, you are forgetting one important thing. Raids don’t give you access to the fortress. Only the watchtower. No king there. I don’t want no loot, I said it at least three times before, and I certainly don’t pretend that I won. I just think that the battle was a draw, and it should be aknowledged as being so. I think this is an overlook by the developers, because the odds of this happening are very low, not something intentional. What if this happened in Alliance Wars?! Would I have got the points for defeating the enemy? I think I should have.


It’s because your definition of win, draw and loss is different.

OK, you don’t like the real life explanation. Fair enough.

As @JonahTheBard said, the attacking team has an advantage because the attacker gets to choose how and when to use specials.

The defending team relies on auto AI and is a sitting duck.

The game rewards the defender in the case of your ‘draw’ because even though both teams were killed the attacker had an advantage and failed to use it.

The defence was good and did its job because the attacker should have won.

*Sorry I hit reply too early so only half came out

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^This of course doesn’t apply to alliance wars because both teams’ members get three hits each so everyone is on an even playing field

So if both teams are on even points there is truly a draw as no one had an advantage over the other.


That is absolutely correct! I’m perfectly aware of that and I use that fact every day to my advantage. I don’t have no fancy 5* team, still I run into such teams every day and take the fight to them. And I do a pretty good job. Now, that specific enemy had an almost fully developed 5* team (only one 4*), against my 4* team. I think it’s safe to say that they just might have had a slight advantage over me… So my attacking advantage was pretty slim I guess… I still managed to kill them all. And still they won… It’s a bit frustrating… In every raid, the one that still stands at the end is the victor. Nobody was standing when this fight ended… nobody really won…

That is not so. You certainly are aware that in AW, while the attacker’s advantage is lesser than in raids, because you can’t really reroll to get the fit opponent, having only a few enemies to choose from, and you run out of your favorite heroes pretty fast, the defending teams have a material advantage in arrows, attack boost or field aid. So I would say, unlike in raids, in AW the defending teams gains advantage as the war unfolds. Unless you use all your AW flags against the same opponent, in which case you would be right, but I don’t see why anyone would do that.

But this applies to both teams. Both teams experience this. It cancels each other out.


Oh, for crying out loud. Defender wins ties. You’re trying to get into their watchtower. That’s your objective. They’re trying to keep you out. That’s their objective. All your heroes are dead, so you have nobody alive to go into the watchtower and claim the cups. The defense kept you out. They won. Pyrrhic victory, sure, but they met their objective and you didn’t.


You summarised it much better than I did

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Who attacked last? If your opponent, then its fair.

P.S. Thats what countetattack causes. :stuck_out_tongue:

I get what you are saying, but is a pretty stupid rule. Ok, I did not get the loot, nor the cups. But I never asked for that. I was asking why should they be considered victorious? They died! Where is the victory in that? Let them keep the loot, but I see no reason for them to get any cups.

Cups are bragging rights, being immortalized in song and story, if you will. Defenders who die to the man in a heroic last stand are remembered that way. Consider the Spartans at Thermopylae or the Texans at the Alamo. Nobody remembers the attackers that way.


I was going to use historical examples but @Ian487 is not interested in real life comparisons

You died first.

If you ask that your hero shouldnt counter attack once he is dead and your opponent should remain alive and win, I agree with that.

I thought of that too… Not sure what killed Isarnia. It might have been counterattack, might have been damage over time from Colen or Kelile, might as well have been old age… the fact is that she died. They all did. As did mine. But I still lost… Everybody tries to come down with elaborate explanations about this being related to the watchtower, or killing kings, or not being able to carry the loot (that was the best one by far). Nobody sees that on the battlefield all heroes went down. Nobody won. And the defenders got rewarded for it. Think a bit about the possibility of this happening to you one day… Would you be happy about it?

Game developers have to choose something in the end. It all comes down to personal opinion and values.

Small Giant chose to reward the defender in the case of a tie. Probably because of what everyone has said above. They probably like the theme of a legendary defence that kept out raiders at great cost. Ie. By sacrificing their lives.

It’s frustrating from the raider’s point of view, I know, but that’s how the cookie crumbles unfortunately.

If you are the developer of a great game in the future you can do it your way @Ian487

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Dude, do you even understand the term Pyrrhic victory?

The defender’s objective isn’t to kill all your heroes. It’s to keep you from taking cups. Killing your heroes, causing you to flee, or holding out until time runs out are all ways to accomplish that objective. They accomplished the objective. They won. Deal with it.

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Dude, hold your horses, there is no need to get starry about it. We are just talking here, debating ideas.

I guess you are missing the whole point.

Regardless of the defenders objective, mine is to kill all his heroes. And that I did. So, as you put it, I might just as well have won, because I attended my objective… I would say you are wrong… I died, I won nothing. It should be the same for the other side.


Victory conditions:

The attacker wins if:
all the defense heroes are dead AND
they have at least one hero alive AND
they have time left on the clock.

They have to meet all 3 conditions

The defender wins if:

all the attacking heroes are dead OR
the attacker flees the battle OR
time runs out

The defender only needs to meet one of those conditions to win.


Where did you get this?

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