Hey SG, change these heroes mana speeds

I want this supposed to be as open and interactive as possible. What I propose is that we as a community come together and discuss heroes whose mana speeds just don’t add up. The rules for posting on this page are simple, state the hero(es) you think needs a mana speed change, whether you want them to be slowed down or sped up is irrelevant, but give reasons why.

My list for speed increases:

Vivica/Kunchen mana speed increased from slow to average. Both of these healers should be on par with Ariel and Ratatoskr, but they aren’t because??? I get that Kunchen and C. Viv have defense down, but with so many cleanser of different types (hatter, Bertila, lady Loki, Zim etc) and more taunters in the game than ever (all of which are at average mana speed themselves) both of these 5* healers need to be bumped down.

Khagan should have his mana speed increased from slow to average. There is nothing that he does that is too unbalanced to justify his slow speed. S1 reds are already lacking and Khagan being bumped to average would really make him shine.

Noor should be bumped to average speed. I don’t know who’s in charge of hero creation at SG, but there is something fundamentally wrong with Noor being slow while Freya and Moth girl laugh at her from the Valhalla fence. I understand that they want to make the Valhalla portal appealing, but changing Noor to a speed just slower than the other two wouldn’t hurt that. S4 is gonna kill the Valhalla portal (let’s be real here).

Grimble needs a mana speed adjustment from average to fast. He doesn’t deal enough damage upfront to warrant his current mana speed and his second effect is far too situational. It is best used against Telluria, because Freya and Moth chick are the same element, which means taking Grimble wouldn’t be advantageous. Grimble at fast wouldn’t break the game.

Norns should be fast and I cannot believe, out of all the Valhalla heroes they buffed, that she was overlooked. If Drake is fast. So should she be.

Boss wolf should be, dare I say it, an average speed hero. Compare him (a monthly event boss) to Telluria and the distance between the two is painfully clear. The only thing that boss has over Telluria is the duration of the mana gen debuff and the 10% difference. Match the amount, but keep the duration and he would be well deserving of average speed.

Leonidas should be fast. He doesn’t hit hard enough, nor is his mana cut to one significant enough to keep him at average speed.

Red Hood should be fast. Her hit is too weak and her minions are too squishy (though they are handy) to have her at average speed. Think about what she can do, then compare her to Zim… Do you see what I see?

Ares/Zulag should be fast mana… As much as they do, they only do it for (potentially) three heroes and all of it is dispellable. Make them fast.

Mokk-Ar should be fast mana as well. I know he does a lot of damage to the enemies, but he also does damage to his allies and all purples, regardless of affirmation, are immune. Too many rules and conditions for him to be average speed.

Horgall should be average speed. If Zeline is fast, Neith and Atomos (finally for the latter) are average, then so should Horgall. I don’t think anyone would disagree.

Now, the moment you all have been dreading. Who do I want to slow down…

The ninjas. I get it that they are designed to be very slow to use their special at its peak, but the number of ghosted tiles to get to that point (with lvl 11 troops) is what? 9-10 tiles. That is nothing, especially when two of them can wipe out an entire team at that point. Many argue that, since it’s equivalent to v.slow, it’s fine… but is it. Alfrike may hit your remaining heroes when she fires. G. Owl needs half his team dead already to deal the damage that cobalt and onyx do, so you see my train of thought? I know that it isn’t ALL the ninjas (though garnet is on the boarder line as well), but I doubt SG can fix two (or three) without changing all of them, so let’s make it easy for them.

Lord Loki needs to be a slow hero. For him to be able to copy any hero’s ability at average speed is nuts. I use mine at 3.70 and was both shocked and mortified that he was able to target heimdall and resurrect my fallen heroes. I know that’s how it’s supposed to work BUT every time I targeted heimdall EVERY fallen hero came back, and since I went rainbow against that team (to test some recently acquired and maxed heroes. Lord loki was the only one not fully leveled, but the entire opposition was leveled with emblems), I was able to fire loki FOUR times. If Heimdall has a 20% chance of revival, I got super lucky in the best way. Something I also noticed, is that whenever Lord Loki copies a special from the target, he hits as if they fired the shot, which is maxed and fully emblemed. That is ridiculous. So I don’t even have to max him in order to get the full use from him???! If you have him, try it out, because I have three and I’m definitely taking all three to 3.70, especially if SG doesn’t fix the last part.

Finley needs to be average speed. He does too much and is guaranteed to do it if there is even the smallest buff on a line-up. SG doesn’t want to adjust his special, fine… Make him average.

Jabberwock would also be fine at average mana. He’s a sniper that hits twice (whether it’s one target or two is irrelevant). He’s too fast for what he does and his poison (though a common ailment) is undispellable.

These are MY lists based off of MY opinions. I have several of the heroes listed, but not all. I do not care if you own them or not, I suggested these heroes specifically to aid in the balance of this game. You have your opinions and I have mine, but I will not attack you for yours, so please don’t attack me for mine.

I do think your just seeing this as a hero to hero base, not what these hero’s with others can with them bring to the table. With emblems or costume bonus, Mana troops. Even family bonus.
Sure some have a benfit from it all and some can be abit ott with synergies with them, seen it before seeing it again.

5 Likes

Perhaps it would be easier to just list the ones that are fine as-is? :slight_smile:

2 Likes

I enjoyed reading this list of mana speed disparities. I think you’re pretty spot on in a bunch of cases. While I agree with you, (and I’ve only been doing this for a little over a year) I don’t think changing mana speeds is something that SG really cares about. In a number of your examples, you referred to old heroes that are more or less out dated now compared to the S3 heroes and recent HOTMs. That’s why Boss Wolf and Red Hood are out of sync. SG doesn’t care that they are becoming antiquated. They want you to chase the S3 heroes.

Alfrike should have a progresive mana speed. But her case should be very slow - slow - average - fast. Because with very slow she can only hit 1x and then wait for too long before she can have her 2nd shot. Do the same with g. owl.

Instead of changing their mana speed, just give jabber and finley the same mechanism as lady woolerton. Make then can’t gain mana for 2 turns. Their special is too good at fast speed without any drawback

Noor is obviously average.

All attacking 1* heroes should be very fast (not you, sharan). They are as strong as a minnion. Attacking every turn will not make any difference.

Well as fun as its sound, i don’t think this will happen :sweat_smile::sweat_smile::sweat_smile:. Maybe they will introduce new heroes with that ability. Its all about the money

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Vivica and Kunchen Average?

Their special is quite stronger than other healers, plus Kunchen passive is too strong.

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I could see uncostumed Vivica being fine at Average. However, if this were also applied to Vivica’s costume (and since costumes all have the same mana speed as their base forms, I don’t see why this wouldn’t be the case), I think she might be too strong.

Wilbur is a 4* and he’s average. Kirill is 4* and average. Aegir and Ariel are 5* and average. Kunchen and C.Vivica lowers defense by 34%… Frigg can go further, faster. All the 5* halloween event heroes can either reverse, cleanse or resist the defense down all together. Then you have Zim, c.Rigard, c.Sonya, Lady Locke, G. Gazelle, Bertila, Lady Loki, Hatter and so many other options (who are currently faster) that can get rid of the defense down. That effect, which was once really amazing, is now kinda meh. The game has evolved to the point that these heroes could be switched to average and it wouldn’t even matter, imo.

If Vivica was average speed, with costume bonus, mana node + lvl 11 mana troop (I think) she’d become fast like Costume Rigard. Totally overpowered!

How is that over powered? She’s a healer that gives defense down, even at fast, that doesn’t mean much. There isn’t a real threat there. If she did damage like Frigg, that would be different, but I don’t think she would be as effective as everyone thinks, especially with c.Sartana, Kageburado, Seshat and all the other purple counters.

Grimble is already very strong - situationally so, but still very strong. He can be run as an off color that can single handedly turn the tide of battle if you are in a minion war, or facing ANY multi minion summoner. His hit is worth the 200 on each hero (assuming unemblemed) plust potentially 1000+ more per each hero depending on how many and how strong the minions, not even counting the mana gain to the team which is the game changing ability. I think he would be too strong at fast.

Kunchen is already dangerous at slow, I think he would be a bit too strong at average. He is so tough to take down even with a mono stack which means often your best hope is to mitigate his special, which often won’t be possible at average a lot of the time. Vivica - agree with the comments that in non costume form this might just be OK but in costume she would be too dangerous

In my opinion this would take her from a “B” to an “A/A+” hero. Not OP but very strong. However, as it is Freya and Bera certainly don’t laugh at her, at least not from a defense team. Noor easily overcomes a Freya in tank, flank or wing and easily overcomes a Bera in wing or flank. A Bera tank is quite dangerous, and Noor struggles in this scenario unless you play very strategically and preferably pair he with a cleanser. On offense those other 2 would summon more often and probably provide more overall value, but against other summoners they would not be as successful. The use case for Noor is basically to combat minion makers and to provide protection, and she does both very well.

I tend to agree with this. He had his uses but is now relegated to the bench as overall he is underwhelming

Probably agree with this too, although I have only experienced her in defense

I only recently got Ares from a lucky HA pull and his use case seems limited to green titans. So would probably agree here.

Don’t agree - Mokk-Ar hits very hard and I think the rules just make him more interesting to use. A bit more situational, but that is what makes this game fun

I don’t see him as an average hero, I think slow fits him. But his special could be beefed up a bit.

I don’t think that would work, but I kind of see your point and he could potentially be OP in some scenarios. I’d like him as a fast hero, but the power of this special scales based on the number of tiles he has - e.g. if he tries to do a Heim special at fast then the chances of res and the attack up and the heal are halved. If he gets an “overboost” of tiles he can fire off any slow special at full strength.

3 Likes

I wouldn’t use her for def down if I could make her a fast hero. Non-costume version to have +63% defense + cleanse + a lot of health + her nice stats… and being able to do that all the time… you’d have to bring a lot of fast dispellers that I don’t have to try and contain her in defense. On offense she’d become the best healer in the game I think (Ariel doesn’t have a costume bonus)

Regular Vivica, even with emblems, has terrible defense. Her +63% Def is dispellable/stealable, so I don’t think too many people would be too concerned.

C.Vivica lowers defense by 44%, which is the max defense down for Frigg; unlike Frigg, she also dispels buffs from the enemy team. If you have her maxed w/level 29 mana troop she becomes functionally average (charges in 10 tiles). So, by maxing her costume and pairing with a lvl 29 mana troop you can make her average.

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I still don’t see how that’s a problem. Zeline has been a fast debuffer for a while now. Enter lady Loki and Hatter, and there isn’t much going on. I personally don’t see her at average being a problem, but if you do, I won’t argue further.

Viv was average when released to beta test.
If she would hav been released now for testing, she probably stays average.
:slightly_smiling_face:.

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All I can say is that the heroes’ respective mana speed may have been reflected to balance with their respective stats and skills. Say, Grimble. He may not hit as hard as one would expect from prized heroes, but he is one beefy hero that can be made as an alternative purple tank. Unfortunately, very few do this since there are better alternatives, even 4* ones. With potential manas to gain from various minion-summoning heroes, he poses a threat from an average support-utility hero.

Another one is Leo. His base stat at max level is already decent and somehow balanced for an S1 hero: 731 attack, 718 defense and 1221 health. His skills of reducing the mana of the target by 40% is already powerful. More than that, he heals 75% of the damage dealt by his special, which is somewhat decent, not too strong like most snipers, at 365% damage. If you make him fast, people will be scrambling to get him and max him, more so when he has his costume available soon, where due to the costume bonus, the original version will have 767 attack, 753 defense, and 1343 health.

These stats, even for a sniper, aren’t that great.

Tell that to Lianna with maxed costume bonus. Very little difference. I hope you did your research first :blush:

Lianna hits significantly harder but is also in an element that only has two snipers on the opposing team/color/element (Marjana and Gefjon) with a bunch of support heroes. Add to the fact that Lianna’s class compliments her perfectly in comparison to many other snipers, and the comparison between her and Leonidas isn’t really fair. More to the point though. Are you saying that Lianna is a hero you go after first when you see her on defense because she is THAT imposing? Personally, I don’t, and I find it hard to believe that anyone would, but I’ve seen/heard crazier.

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