⚖ Hero Balance Discussion: Zocc

I am not the author of the spreadsheet, but I believe this is rather fair.

He has mediocre tile damage (which is one of the main factors when evaluating titan performance), and denying the titan’s special doesn’t compensate that too well (it can be mitigated in a multitude of other ways).
Regarding the overall B-, he just doesn’t excel at anything. Single-target mana control at average speed with sub-par damage is nothing to write home about (literally a worse Merlin), and the potential to screw you over against monks, clerics, and debuff-immunity heroes like Grazul - pushes him further down to the “minus” rating.

This isnt math though!

When having 5 straight sixes the average can and may not be a five so either miscalculation or some other thing is wrong

@JonahTheBard this is about calculations from @Anchor 's spreadsheet, not about ep balancing. And now you’re putting it on ep stuff… not good

There’s a saying “a sum greater than its parts”. In this case, it’s the opposite.

I would, however, consider him C-grade on defense.

It’s part of the discussion about people’s opinions on the strength of Zocc.

And it’s not like this thread is currently overrun, so the stage is all yours :slightly_smiling_face:

I think it’s tidier to keep discussion around the strength of a hero in one place.

Any debate around his grading will inevitably include whether he’s good enough or weak or OP.

If you just want a definitive answer, only @Anchor can explain. You could try his YouTube comments, if you get no joy here.

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I’ve been testing Zocc out at 3/50, and so far that average speed really is just a huge drag. Yes when he does manage to go off and I aim him at non-monk/clerics, he does exactly what he’s intended to do, but usually in those cases the board was good enough I’d have won without him anyway. On mediocre boards, Hansel still does the job better, and I’m not afraid to use him against monk/cleric because worst case they just manashield/withstand, instead of instantly filling up and screwing me over.

Make him fast, and we’ve got a real winner on our hands. Since I already spent the shields he’s going to 3/70, but I won’t be spending any tonics on him in his present state.

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Zocc – Mindless Attack

Based on a previous AMA, it’s clear to me that the devs think Mindless Attack is a very powerful effect and they didn’t want it to be freely put in just any 5* without some clear drawback:

Hence why Alfrike is v. slow and why Zocc hits for much less damage than other average speed snipers (see Gregorion, Domitia, Khiona).

Now personally, I do think that mindless is a strong effect, but I also don’t think it’s that good to make Zocc hit for so little damage. In a sense, I think devs somewhat overrate Mindless.

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Couldnt agree more with you, the damage dealt by zocc is a joke, having in mind he is average and mindless attack deals a maximum of 150 dmg…

I do not consider this kind of post useful, it only feeds that many who did not get a hero and cannot with him turn their hatred and ask to be eliminated. There should not even be these posts, the hero has already left. The discussion should take place before the hero is available in the game, not after many people obtained it.

Something needs to be changed with his special. Either increase damage and make him a real sniper or change the mindless attack. Maybe make zocc similar to loki. The attacked hero should release his special skill against his own.

Give Zocc an extra Mindless Attack. One chosing and one random. Just like they did with Bjorn double attack. Afrike is very slow mana but has 5 possible Mindless Attacks.

So EP can control that “random” Mindless Attack without OP Zocc.

Been running him for over a week now. I think he is slightly lackluster in terms of damage and that is affecting the perception of his overall effectiveness. He would be great, and fun, if he did minor damage to nearby enemies.

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I’m not worrying about this thread as I don’t hv him , I had kunchen , vela , JF and 2 tellurias followed by S1 legendaries only , no S2 and S3 legendaries. Haha

Proteus has a 5* version
And now Merlin does too

Proteus may have a slight edge
But that doesn’t mean Merlin isn’t fun to play

Zocc has a decent role on attack squads and said,
"we can’t all be Telluria."

This hero is fine. Useful and to the point.
I’m glad they didn’t make it too strong,
I’d hate to see Vela get nerfed again

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I don’t see this hero as a domage dealer but as a support hero that can deal higher damage than a healer. On blue titan fights, I use it instead of melendor to prevent my team from being hit by the monster’s special attack and limit the need of healing. I have it at 4-80 and he can do a really nice job. Hitting hard is not the only way to win a fight; keeping heroes alive is also important and Zocc help a lot in this on certain war fights. He is not in my main attack team but I like using it sometimes; he bring something different to the game. For sure, I’ll be happy to deal more damage using him so I can consider to bring it on my main offense team.

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Sure he could be tweaked to be a little more powerful but I’ve maxed mine hes plenty useful on offense for me.
Anything drastic and he becomes way too OP.
I believe the power ladder is something like this:
S1 5*->HOTM=S2 5*=Seasonal 5*->S3 5*=Event 5*
HOTM’s are reasonably accessible. Often they wont be world beaters. Enjoy the good ones when they come out, find a role for the average ones, or just ignore them if you dont like them. Not every HOTM is going to be amazing, and they shouldn’t. I have my own suspicions on why ppl complain so much about HOTM etc. But I’ll keep that to myself.

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Been testing him out at 3/70 for a while now, and I’m just not impressed. If I’m facing aggressive defenses, I still much prefer Hansel+18 (or even Proteus+19 w/ lv 17 mana troop) over Zocc because that one extra match really does make the difference sometimes. For the most part, the battles where I did get to fire Zocc, the board was good enough I could’ve subbed in another green hero and still won, so Zocc had little to no role in helping to secure the victory.

Yes I get it’s not entirely fair to compare Hansel+18 (which is basically 5* 4/80 stats) to Zocc at 3/70, but the point is if I need to quickly shut down the defense’s mana, I still much prefer taking a hero who can do so in 3 matches instead of 4 (or hoping for a dragon bomb to appear somewhere).

Seriously, drop Zocc’s damage to 250% or whatever but make him fast, and he’ll probably have equal if not more playtime than Hansel. He’s somewhat viable in a green stack at 3/70 and I do use him occasionally in war, but he’s never a part of my main attack team.

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+8 node (I think) and level 17 troop will get him to a 9 tile special. I am aiming for that, but I find him plenty useful even as-is (4/80/3)

Sure but there are better options for rogue emblems at both the 4* (Jackal, Brynhild, Peters) and 5* levels (Marjana, Alice, Sif).

Saying that he is like peters or others 4* means you havent used him maxed. I only have right now Marjana and Zocc as 5* to give rogue emblems so he is at node 9, charging at 9 titles. He is much better than hansel 18 by far. You can make him better by making him hit like 350% but cant see any other change that wont make him op. He is pretty good for titans and offense.

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