⚖ Hero Balance Discussion: Noor

When have I tried to silence anybody? Ive made requests not to talk in absolutes, and I have also said (after a number of personal attacks and a number of people describing Noor as “trash” without owning her or substantiating it in any way) that I won’t be listening to any further arguments from people who don’t own her. That is not silencing anyone, that is me not being interested in having that conversation with those people. I have never said “If you don’t like Noor, don’t say anything”. I have been told a few times that because I like Noor, and based on hypothetical and real team decisions I would make, that my opinion is not to be respected.

At the end of the day this topic is about Noor balance. People can jump on here and give opinions on why she is not balanced, and I can jump on here and give my opinions on why I think she is balanced. Why are so many posts from me? Because for the longest time nobody was seeing her value. That has changed a bit now, but initially I wanted to make sure that a balanced and what I think is accurate view was given of her, for the benefit of anyone who had pulled her and who might be put off by the one-sided views on her.

And I have provided my thoughts on a number of tweaks that I would welcome on her - even though I would be happy to use her as-is as she works well for me. The fact that you think that because I have lent my voice to show the positive aspects of her would contribute to SG not buffing her if that was otherwise their intent is pretty laughable.

Fact is, Noor is not nearly as weak as Thoth Amun and Perseus and has an “extended niche” role in today’s meta in PVP, and is one of the most powerful heroes in PVE. And I will continue to share my opinions - memes and all - regardless of how much negativity you or people like you throw my way, because I have actually seen that my thoughts have helped some people out. Plus it got me a cool if confusing forum title.

Oh, and for those who like to mock my raid win percentage, it is currently at around 90% as Gefjon has shown to have a very good synergy with Noor when paired up against a Tel + summoner defensive team

pal

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As stated Aegir is average. He is terrible in defense (not as terrible as Noor though). On offense? He could possibly be good, but I don’t have him so a bit hard to extrapolate.
Alberich, Kunchen, Miki are all top tier heroes and yes I think they are a tier above Noor. Raffaele is probably in the same tier as Noor, and I think he is quite good with game-changing healing (I have him at 3/70). There are a number of HOTMs that I think are worse than Noor (factoring in speeds) but I don’t have the time to dig into it at the moment. Perseus, Thoth-Amun, Aeron, Natalya (personal opinion) all come to mind. I think it is wrong to just look at HOTMs when looking at the value of a hero, especially as it seems the overall power of newer HOTMs is on a downward trend. A hero that is “Worse than Alby” can still be very good, and very useful to your bench.

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:rofl:
What’s so
Confusing about it?

Well maybe my general knowledge is lacking but I had to google search it the first time…

So, when will Noor improve? SG has just released another heroine that summons a familiar with 20% attack and 20% health (only 5% less than Noor), and has fast mana speed!

It is absurd that Noor has slow mana speed and familiar with 25% attack and 25% health. Noor has no power that sets her apart from others. She is very weak and useless. Noor had to have fast mana equal to the others, or at least average mana and 30% attack and 30% health to have any unique power.

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Who is the new hero? What are their powers?

No matter how much you hate noor you would have to be deliberately deluding yourself to say that she has no unique power. She has 2 - the self minion, and the insta minion kill. Each new minion summoner that is released actually builds her case as it is another set of minions that she can insta kill

The best comparison I can give to Noor for relevance is Myztero.

If you have good reds, such as Lady Loki, Grazul, or a deep roster, you can make her work. For your average F2P player, they’ll be hard pressed for those kind of heroes. I have her on my sons account and the only reason I ascended her is because he is basically F2P and that’s all has. On her own, she is quite lackluster. She is good though for maps and challenges

Myztero, who I pulled will work extremely well with a bunch of paywall heroes like Vanda, Francine, Garnett, JF, Zimkitty and Grazul. You could bring Caedmon or Sonya with the skin but when you’re gonna be raiding in the top 100, those 2 don’t hold up very well and I don’t even use those 2 during wars. I know she can work with Grazul as I tried him out this last war and it was something really good

Both need help and with an average roster, neither will very good.

Bera
Familiar 20% Life and 20% attack
Plus other benefits
Mana speed: Fast

Freya
Familiar 20% Life and 20% attack
Plus other benefits
Mana speed: Fast

Noor
Familiar 25% Life and 25% attack
More benefit of the elemental
Mana speed: slow

Do you really consider that this 5% more Life and Attack justifies Noor to have slow mana instead of fast like the others? Noor must have at least average mana speed.

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Ah OK I thought you were referring to a new minion summoner.

If it was just 5% extra attack and life, I would say slow is not justified at all. But the self minion is big (works out at 800-1200 self-heal per raid on average, if you line up against summoners) plus the insta kill of opponent minions is also a very big part of her special. She plays a dual-role of minion support hero as well as summoner counter.

I think her speed at both slow and average could be justified. At slow she is good, at average she would be great.

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The self minion ability only works against heroes whose specials summons minions. It doesn’t work when minions randomly pop up. It’s too niche and too weak for a Hotm’s ability when compared to any other slow 5*'s abilities.

That 5% extra life / attack is not as great as Homaclese makes it sound. By the time Noor summons a single minion, the opposite team with Bera / Freya would’ve already summoned a horde of strong minions. Speed is all that matters in the meta of this game. Small differences in percentage of minion’s life can’t justify Noor’s slow speed.

Imo taking slow heroes to battle is a big gamble. To be honest I’d rather take Kunchen than Noor to an offensive battle. In fact, I do it all the time during wars. Kunchen can perform well in the last team full of 4* rejects. He’s tough enough to survive a barrage of slash attacks and a sniper’s special. He’s usually the last man standing thanks to his big heal and immunity to def down status.

Noor on the other side needs a lot of help from other top tier heroes to shine. Just check Homaclese’s videos, guys. Without C. Rigard, Proteus or Lady Locke, Noor would struggle to survive. She wouldn’t do well in a team full of vanilla 4* heroes.

Just because there’s somebody out there who goes out of his way to form a niche team of 5* for Noor and has some videos of her “winning” battles doesn’t mean she’s a great hero. This whole thread is just confirmation bias that never stops.

We all should agree that Noor deserves a buff and leave it at that. We all love Noor afterall, right? She deserves a big buff, c’mon.

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Ah @SirGorash you magnificent, mocking, narrow-minded knight. It is so refreshing to wake up to your insightful posts!

Yes. Has been covered frequently before. She has an “extended niche” utility. With 2 enemy summoners she is at 100% utility, at 1 summoner 75% utility and no summoners 50% utility. I have discussed this before. Luckily for me, it is super easy to find 2 summoners (Tel, Seshat) to line up against in either upper diamond raiding or wars. In PVE, her anti summoner abilities are just a bonus and she is powerful enough with just the super meat shields.

Can you please quote me on where I have talked about how great I have made it sound?

That is an absolute lie and clearly shows that you have not tried using her in this situation and are trying to run a simulation in your head. A Bera or Freya in wings will never trigger before Noor’s special. In flank they will trigger first if only if you decide to trigger them by focusing your tiles there. In tank yes they will absolutely trigger first. Regardless of the position I will usually try to target Freya with tiles as her special is the least impactful to me, and Noor’s self minion will whittle away until it is zero. I also try to not kill her off too early. With Bera I have to be more careful - a Bera at tank is quite dangerous and you have to be strategic in such matches. Regardless, my win rate against both is the same as it is against other summoner teams, in the 80-90% ballpark.

Wow. Major blinkers on much? If you have an all fast team then bringing in an average or slow hero can disturb the synergy of the team. But a team composed of fast, average and slow can be just as effective as an all fast team, if it is constructed well.

I have never said they did. I have said, and you can quote me on this, that her self minion goes at least part of the way in justifying her slow speed

Exaccly, that is your opnion based on your play style and strategies.

I would love to see a 5/6 win result against 4600+ tp teams with this team config. Can you record it please?

No single hero would do well against the top defenses in a team full of vanilla 4* heroes. I need that full stable of heroes to hit that 90% win rate. Just as a FYI, Proteus has been replaced with Gefjon (that was a big leap up in firepower for me) and I have now replaced C Rig with Grimble, because that is a lot of fun.

Firstly, there are a lot of people who have successfully used her now without a “niche” team. Secondly, I have always shown her winning as part of a team and have acknowledged her role and contribution in the team. Thirdly, rrrawr ■■■■■ cat! makes cat claw swipe in air

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Here you go champ. This is reflective of most of my raids against these ladies (can’t claim it is all, as stated tanks will almost always fire first, and flank summoners usually, but not 100%, only fire first if I specifically target them). I am in no way claiming this victory was because of Noor - I’ve actually gotten a lot of value out of putting Grimble in the team, and Grazul and Lady Loki played their part as usual. This video just goes to demonstrate that your prediction about special triggering is almost always innacurate.

This was the 27th raid win out of the last 30, FYI.

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you’re quoting anchor grades?
if that’s your E and P reference point, I’m sorry.

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I guess me and my alli mates that have and use Noor to great effect are absolutely clueless. We must just be bad players.

Funny thing is, we continue to do very well, individually and as an alliance. I use Noor most wars, as do several others. She performs well when used correctly.

Does she deserve a slight buff? I’m sure a slight tweak would be fine.

Does she absolutely NEED one, I’d venture to say probably not.

Also, I dont see Homaclese “silencing” anyone. When someone makes a valid argument backed up by facts and evidence its not to “silence”, it’s to open up a discussion for things that may have been overlooked. The butthurt on this thread is unreal. If he has shown a perfectly logical and effective way to use a hero I’m not sure why that is the impetus for such ire.

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Defaulting to other players opinions is the bulk of this forum. Including newer player opinions…

The reason older players still utilize that grading system is because @Anchor has the roster to make accurate comparisons. And can tie in beta.

Vs newer players who add a 5* to their ranks and are blown away by it. Blathering on and on, all over the forum including off-topic posts…

Only to discover later on, after their roster grows (so their experience can also…)
that slow heroes struggle to help your raid push in upper diamond where the bulk defenses have high damage and fast-very fast speeds only.

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20 lols! Friend stop being coy everyone knows you are talking about me. And I only raid in mid to high diamond against predominantly 4600+to teams that are also predominantly fast. My most recent 27/30 raid record, which is just representative of every other day, shows that fast is not the only valid speed in this game. Wars are a similar story and I’m averaging somewhere in the 240 to 250 mark there.

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Taking other people’s opinions on just about anything should come with a huge grain of salt.
I understand perfectly what you are saying but I’ve seen more than a few players led astray by his “grading” system.
I prefer to take a multitude of opinions (I know I’ve gotten into it with you before lol, but I respect the game acumen you got) and then filter them through my own prism of knowledge and analysis.
Blindly following a purely subjective grading system is kinda silly, especially when so many hero’s worth (as this thread clearly demonstrates) is actually completely subjective and dependent on roster.
If I had a dollar for every time someone said, “but anchor has him ranked lower than such and such” or “But hes only a B, C(insert undesirable grade here) as graded by anchor!”
To be frank, I don’t care one iota what Anchor says about anything. I’d rather glean salient information from a variety of people who I respect in game much more.
I’ve printed his grade sheet out and “blew my nose with it” to put it lightly.

Immediately resorting to name calling huh :joy: I guess that’s proof you don’t take criticism towards Noor in a personal way.

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Very detailled and insightful discussion here, nice!

Yet she definetly needs a buff, especially when u compare her to other heroes.

I love my Noor, paired with hel, grazul, JF and cRigard she works just fine for me, yet still, honestly? she is so trash

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