⚖ Hero Balance Discussion: Miriam & Midnight

The flanks become crazy due to the attack boost. To me the attack boost is the main issue. I will agree that several flanks are extremely strong even without the attack boost. Happy gaming!

1 Like

Give same rebalancing treatment to Halloween family heros as u gave it to winter family last year…
Halloween heros all together is big threat and excessively heavy on Defense on top of that heavy hitting flanks making it more powerful

Khufu alone? Can handle. Khufu with Anne, difficult but still ok. Then you put midnight in middle and things for really bad in 3 turns. Then you have more morlovia in wings for that 12% mana boost. Attack boost. Status throwback.

It is like old GTV combo. Individually super strong. The combo is super OP. Mostly because of midnight.

I just saw bunch of midnight tanks in bloody battle. How OP a healer hero has to be to put in bloody battle tank?

The only way to counter is using direct minion counter. Passive minion counters like devana or Noor which most people have doesn’t work because there’s always alucard in wing.


It’s funny that you mentioned this week’s bloody battle and m&m tank, because that’s exactly what I have, and it is not as powerful as you think.


I saw two and beat both easily. Without the heal she’s easy prey.

1 Like

I am reminded of the sadness brought by the GTV Nerf. There was much debate and discussion about whether it was the tank or the flank. I see that same discussion here. Is that the strong flanks that are the problem? Or is it the tank? It is the combination of all three.

They first made adjustments during gtv, then they made more adjustments, then they nerfed additional heroes, then they basically got screamed out by the population because they couldn’t get it right.

Take a step back, look at the analytics, look at the data. Let’s pick the right adjustments to bring everybody in balance and only do this nonsense once.

1 Like

Honestly, there is zero need for a nerf. M&M are overpowered, and so are the usual flanks. But it doesn’t matter.

Within three weeks time, we will have had both the Monster Island and the Brave Musketeer events. After those two events, the M&M tanks will begin to wane, possibly quite rapidly. You’ll soon wish you could face M&M again instead of what is coming.

They might nerf M&M anyway, once enough time has elapsed for folks to use up their ascension mats and aethers. The nerf would be just to force the issue and guarantee folks move on to the next OP hero. But there won’t be a nerf until those mats have been used, so as to maximize profits on M&M. Those mats need to be replaced, and SG has just the offer for that, but they need to create a need for folks to buy the offer first. They have metrics to help optimize the timing.

Also, don’t look at the numbers on the Musketeers from beta, those won’t be the final numbers. They will be buffed in January.

You see, SG will do the usual thing with a slow drip for hero release, where some heroes are held back and you get a new hero one at a time with each successive appearance of the portal. Most players will have figured out the pattern by now, and those smart enough to crunch the numbers will know to not pull until all the heroes are out. (Far fewer pulls will be needed to get everything in the portal, plus they will get stuck with fewer dupes.) This will cause the portal’s pull numbers to be below SG’s expectations. SG will ignore the real reason players didn’t pull from the portal and instead assume that it was because the heroes weren’t sufficiently overpowered. Then they will buff them beyond belief without any testing. In January. Days before they run Musketeers again. For (bank) “balance” reasons.

Don’t believe me? Take a closer look at how it went with Gargoyles, War of Three Kingdoms, the first batch of S5 heroes, and most recently, the Styx Tower. At this point it is a well-established pattern.

So again, no nerf is needed. M&M is on the cusp of being obsoleted, like it or not, with two sets of OP heroes about to flood the whales’ hunting grounds and there’s nothing any of us can do to stop it.


If a hero is overpowered, it by definition needs a nerf. “There are going to be more OP heroes” only means there are going to be more heroes that need a nerf.

That’s not necessarily true. There are two predominant ways to deal with “game balance” or “power creep”…

  1. Maintain original game balance by adhering to strict hero power standards through rigorous beta testing, player feedback, then preferably releasing only balanced heroes and then nerfing not only the obvious outliers (OP heroes), but also constantly & consistently adjusting all heroes on an ongoing basis

  2. Constantly introduce new heroes of ever increasing power, sprinkle in some special OP event heroes, then increase the amount of special events so you can release even more of the OP heroes, and continue on & on & on, until there are so many OP heroes that no single hero can completely dominate game balance for more than a few weeks at a time, and all semblance of game balance is so skewed that the players argue & bicker amongst themselves until time immemorial

While it’s obvious most all players would prefer the first option, gaming companies prefer option two because it makes them an a$$load of money. It’s also pretty clear we’re (the game collectively) fully entrenched in the second option and have been for a while, and I don’t see that changing anytime soon.


I believe that Miriam and Midnight, by itself, is not an OP hero. With the proper combination of flanks, it’s true that it can become a problem facing it due to the increased attack for already OP heroes like CGuardian Panther, Set, Anne, Khufu and similar heroes. So maybe reducing the attack bonus M&M gives could be an option. The same applies to the HP of its minions. For the rest, it should remains as is. It’s up to the players to find strategies to maximize hero usefulness, and to counter powerful heroes. Otherwise, this becomes just a boring game, dependent on luck alone, and with constant change of rules to satisfy those who didn’t get specific heroes.

If the tank gives mama up then Khufu and Panther kill me!

If the tank gives attack up then Khufu and Panther kill me!

Do you guys seriously not see the issue here? Stop messing with the tanks, it’s the flanks that are OP


I regularly beat M&M-tanked top defence using the team below. This set-up helps me kill her with 4 tiles. Of course if she manages to cast, it’d be harder, but Margaret’s dodge and Grazul’s protection frequently save my guys from the 1st strike of her heavy-hitter sidekicks. By then, my 2 snipers (fully charged by 7-8 tiles) are ready to get rid of 1 of them or lower their attack by 39% at least.

The fact that a fully leveled M&M can be killed with just 4 tiles makes my team leveled up with her in terms of power considering her mana boost and the annoying red vampire placed in the corner. This attack team is formed with 4 old hotms and 1 classic.

Balance-wise, she’s alright, but I think what makes people complain is her survival ability. Maybe the minion’s health to be reduced to 25-30%? Other than that, she’s pretty similar to the old Ares isn’t she?


for the record, I like her set up as she is without the passives but
could you please record how you can kill MnM with 4 tiles when everyone else needs at least 6 using a 3-2 set up???
Nice troops but why havent you taken Liana to 20 emblems???

1 Like

I’ll try to make a video when there’s time. It’s harder to catch a match 4. I also don’t wanna reroll too much. Doing that has mixed up the board pretty badly (don’t know about others but I’ve experienced that so often these days).

Margaret, and Kingston got +20% attack (2019 family bonus along with Grazul) and my Margaret got crit troops with chance of double damage. That explains it I guess.

Sorry my bad, I’d say 5 tiles or 4 green tiles plus 1 red tile. 4 direct green tiles might be rare (though I’ve done that 3 times and my crit troops hit her twice critically), but also note that my Margaret hasn’t been LBed and you already know how high her attack is.

I don’t have enough emblems to bring Lianna to the 20 node yet (working on my Jove) :smile:, but that’d be nice since Bastet has been so popular…

thanks, no need to reroll. It just takes me 6 tiles to get her down in a 3-2 is why I was asking. Gratz On Jove. There’s another OP but thats what seems to be rolling out now days

1 Like

I meant reroll to find a team with M&M tank. Anytime I do that, I tend to get bad board 4-5 times in a row. I’m quite C2P now so I’ve been trying to be resource efficient.

4 tiles to kill her due to +20% attack of 2019 family bonus plus 2 critical hits from my crit troops. When Margaret got limit breaker, I’ll be able to do that more often. :slightly_smiling_face:

Boosted health and beefy minions mean double survivavility for the flanks. Add berseker attack to those hit all (anne, c panther, khufu, bastet…) and you are in trouble. Try to block them with nasty effects and the minions will throw them back to you, use a good buff protection like taunt or evade and M&M and her morlovia teammates will steal it from your heroes. So the beefy minions are not the only problem, the problem is the whole lot.


Anyone being honest will admit she is OP. I use her as tank myself.

The attack boost needs to be reduced to what BK does, and the heal that the minions do each turn should also be reduced by about half.

I fully expect SG to nerf her, but they will probably go overboard and reduce her to useless.

1 Like

She will be nerfed in about a week when they realize there isnt a need for people to pull from the xmas portal

I have M&M and I don’t think she’s OP. G. Panther, Sobek, Anne, Jove and Khufu are OP. M&M is fine. If they hit any hero, it needs to be one (or preferably multiple) of the others I mentioned.

1 Like