Sneak in this too 
1 Like
just wowā¦
And people donāt get why players are so distraught by this featureā¦
Well done sg, well doneā¦
Anyways itās at this point probably one of the biggest wastes of time, resources, and gems in the game. I would advise anyone against building/researching HA10
As this is in the guide category, figured Iād throw in a helpful tip like it isnāt already obvious enough
All Iāll say on it so to not derail the thread into another rant thread and keep it an informative threadā¦
16 Likes
Also:
- Lower the cost and training time of HA7 (trainer hero training) and increase the odds of higher-rarity trainer heroes, until itās worth using at some point, likely for training level 60+ heroes
- Lower the cost and time for all troop training options (except HA9) so it doesnāt take two decades to train troops to high levels.
Alternatively:
- Institute some sort of trade-in reward, similar to alkashards, that can be traded in for epic hero tokens, epic troop tokens, Atlantis coins, Valhalla coins, costume keys, tavern coins, or challenge coins.
7 Likes
why not change the outcome a little:
S1 5* Hero that you donāt have
5 Likes
Its currently 5* hero that is not used for the retraining.
If you have any idea, feel free to add it here:
3 Likes
@Guvnor thanks for putting all this information together. Another special case worth mentioning when talking about odds might be HA7. Beta test runs have shown a percentage of maybe even less than 1% for a 4* trainer and 50% or more for a 1*
2 Likes
Summary
Loot box unit pricing
86.4+ years= Specific limited availability hero ( example Gravemaker ).
1.7+ years= Any limited availability hero ( includes duplicates ).
1.8+ years= Specific Classic 5* Hero.
14 days= Any Classic 5* hero ( includes duplicates and includes hero originally retrained )
7 days= Any Classic 5* Hero ( includes duplicates except hero originally retrained see next line above ).
versus
16.8+ years = Specific Classic 5* Hero ( 1x Legendary training ( RT20 ) )
8.4+ years = Specific Classic 5* Hero ( 2x Legendary training ( RT20 ) )
4.2+ years = Specific Classic 5* Hero ( 4x Legendary training ( RT20 ) )
So theoretically it is better then Legendary training ( RT20 ) to get a Specific Classic 5* Hero. But you need a 5* hero for the recipe.
Note: Legendary training ( RT20 ) can be used to hoard food, hoard recruits and generate Hero XP / Costume XP. Retraining a hero produces ZERO hero XP / costume XP, cannot hoard food and cannot hoard recruits.
Details
Specific Limited availability heroes
Gravemaker, or any specific limited availability hero.
Any limited availability hero
Hero Academy Loot box unit pricing
| Hero | Attempts | 100% Base food production | 100% 24 hour World Energy | Hero Academy |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| Limited availability hero ( including duplicates) | 89+ | 112 days+ | 61+ days | 623+ days ( 1.7+ years ) |
Specific Classic 5* Heroes
These odds are slightly too generous ( 1 in 20 ) and the food cost should be 74.97% compared to Beta v0.1. But I do not feel like calculating the actual odds ( 1 in 21.0526 ) or food. Someone else can adjust them, but they are close enough.
See also
Versus Legendary training
5 Likes
How can a new player get motivated by this?
Im a f2p myself for maybe close to 2 years now. Its such a pain to get all the buildings leveled up. With like 85%-90% uptime on my worker im close to upgrading my stronghold to level 24!. Looking at the requirements for HA lv 10 is just a joke. Iron storages alone gonna take 2 more month to get to the point where i could build HA 10 (2748k). 13 days for SH 25. 3 month for food storages (3311k) for the research and more than 1 month to increase my recruit capacity to 300 recruits. Then additional 2 month for HA itself
What iāll get for my struggle:
After 8 month of non-stop Upgrading i get 1 chance every week to turn 1 of my duplicate 5 stars into a pool of old HOTM/ Season 2 hero / eventhero at a 5% success rate.
On average this translates to 1 āspecialā hero every 20 weeks/ 5month. not taking into account that ~20% of those heroes are worse or on par with most season 1 heroes
So after over a year from now i will get 1 āspecialā hero out of this and in 2 years 3.
Additional there is a oppertunity cost of not getting additional feeder troops or trainer heroes (373 per āspecialā hero), not to mention the common occuring of streaks of bad luck.
7% of players can run that camp a hole year and wont get a result (2 out of every alliance)
When i was a new player i thought if i can just get to tc 20 i can really start competing, that kept me motivated. And sure enough after a few month i looked into a wiki because that process turned out to be longer than expected. What i found was, that iāll indeed needed to wait a few month more to reach my goal, but i was fine with it, because it felt reachable.
If i were to start 6 month ago from now into this game, went throught the same process as described above, started to be really interested into this game and started to do my reasearch on this game. Just to find out: the best option this game has to offer is a 5% chance to retrain a hero into a hero that isnāt even that much better (rising quality of heroes on average in S3 and recent Hotm) than the average S1 hero IF i spent 2 more years into this gameā¦
I would leave the game in an instantā¦
A nice suggestion on the waiting part from Farmer Ben: Leveling up finishes your current construction.
On the HA itselfā¦ thereās much to doā¦
15 Likes
This number is without considering the addition of new heroes on the 5% poll each month, isnāt it? By 80 years, the chance for specific non-S1 would have down from 0.1% to 0.005%.
Tavern of legends adds new HotM at 12 months old.
As far as I know, Hero Academy is locked in to the initial set.
flagging my post for a Moderator who is also a Beta tester.
Notes
Doesnāt that means in each month there will be 1 more HotM who pass that 12 months milestone and added?
Just like in Taverns of Legend, in the last one, we had Ranvir added to the poll.
The indication is that HA will function the same way as the Legends Portal where āoldā hotm are added along the way.
I havenāt checked (will when beta opens again) but I believe that Ranvir has been added to the HA10 pool who was not there before.
4 Likes
5% percent rate for HOTM maens after 20 weeks (4-5 months) you will only have 64% chance of getting 1 HOTM. LOL, this is poor rate, and besides, there are also many HOTMs that are not good in the mix, such as Thoth amun and Aeron. Therefore, chances is your may only get 1 good HOTM running HA for 1year, and it may even be a HOTM you already own!
This game is slowly but surely building up garbage.
4 Likes
That is why I want a straight non-S1 to non-S1 conversion, so in case we got a bad one, we can change it.
Some might claim that will make us get targeted hero easily such as Gravemaker. But the reality is not. Even with non-S1 to non-S1 conversion, GM chance is only around 2% as there are about 50 heroes in the poll.
1 Like
I think, for perspective, it would help to see a similar breakdown for TC20, for comparison.
176 years for 99.99% chance for specific hero seems harsh, but I wouldnāt be surprised if for TC20 the 99.99% tier was also counted in tens of yearsā¦ Yes, the pool is much smaller, but at the cost of majority of the heroes being fairly useless. The only difference is, you can run even 4 TC20 training at once, if you please, to multiply the odds.
Which leads me to my improvement idea - allow players to turn their TC20s into Hero Academies, and by any means, allow them to run even 4-5 at once at level 10 if they please and can afford it resource wise (probably would need to remove the ability to run two trainings at once per each Academy). If you wish, you can multiply the odds of getting new heroes (yet if you want to chase specific one, you can still end up disappointedā¦ not even spending 100,000 gems per month for which you spend 1000s USD can guarantee you getting a specific hero in reasonable time, so why would free pulls do that; not that I like it, itās just the way the game is, always was and likely always will be). If you donāt care about grinding for new legendaries, you can still utilize HA as a better/alternative way to create feeders than what earlier levels on TC do. Win-win.
Only thing that concerns me (or I believe concerns SG/Zynga) is once you pull those heroes you want, and ascend them, you discover there is not much the game has to offer you in terms of a real challenge/sense of progression. So the moment your army is finally ready, you realize thereās nothing else to do. So I think the risk here is that if in a year people are able to build teams of Zelines, Fongs and Fridas, they end up bored and leave for good anyway; they will just spend less in the meantime. But thatās probably a complaint for a different topic.
2 Likes
Its more than 176 years as that calculation assume the odds is constant. However as more heroes enter the pool, the odds for specific hero diminished, based on my calculation, it will took more than 400 years on average (not 99.99%).
But S1 is widely available across every summon portal.
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poeple are gonna leave eventually as is. The queston is which is the best way to keep people around longer. By pissing the off or giving incentives???
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Why did thaey waste the first FOUR level?
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Would surely welcome something like a second Zim or Albyā¦
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I am not going to welcome 3rd Thoth or 2nd Aeronā¦
1 Like