Healthy criticism of heroes in general

Kerridoc made minor formatting changes to improve readability

In the beginning I want to say I’ve been playing E&P for about 10 months in total I’ve probably spent 150-200 dollars on the game. Currently I own 9 5* heroes most of which I got on a lucky single pull. The reason why I explained my current situation with the game is that throughout the talk I will use some personal examples and I think many of you will also have shared a similar experience throughout your time of playing. Ok without further a due let’s start.

The general critique that I have with the heroes and the hero system in general is that, most heroes seem powerful but really are useless, heroes that are actually good at things suffer because the aspect of game that they are good at is uninteresting and most heroes in our tab do nothing that makes summoning more of a targeted grind and development extremely slow.

Let’s go through each of the three points separately.

“Most heroes seem powerful but really are useless” now what do I mean by this. For example let’s take seshat. Most of you probably know 7DD and anchor specifically (https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCeVDi9kbQdCtlZ4ocJZjbew), anchor himself said that seshat was even more powerful than people realized on the spot and that she was “broken” or “op”. At this point if you think that I’m going to say that she is really useless your wrong, I’m not going to argue if she is extremely strong or not, she is strong the fact of the matter is that in places that she’s “best” other much cheeper strategies also work. (Excluding Titans for now) I want you to turn your attention to this video: https://youtu.be/FGarIZRD-oQ and this video: https://youtu.be/sU3-xGuCJz8 in both videos the last last boss the Pinnacle of PvE is beaten by 4 star heroes, in the latter video only season 1 4 star heroes. Now the overarching theme here is that they both use multiple healers. With a simple mechanic of 3 healers healing hard mode ursena, mind you the strongest boss had a hard time killing what in pure statistical fashion is considered mid tier heroes ( it’s easy 1 and 2*s are fodder and 3*s are low tier 4*s mid and 5*s high this is what game wants you to think). Now why is this a problem? In my opinion this case of healers beat “anything” type of situation is undermining the amount of work and effort that goes into powering 5*s up at the same time establishing that 4* are more then capable to handle all of PvE.

Getting back to anchor, in one of his Livestream he suggested to power up 4*s for alliance wars instead of 5*s since it was easier and less time consuming. So these proclaimed 5*s the best and the strongest should not be your go to in PvE or in alliance war, thus I ask: why are they even in the game for? Now again excluding the Titan there are two options: raids and raid tournaments. Let’s start with the latter. I think we can all agree that raid tournaments are not fun and it’s one of the biggest fails of this game. For one rewards are mediocre at best and the amount of effort it takes to get to top 1% really does not pay of 99 out of 100 times. The defects are really not that impactful. Every heroes is now very fast ok so put slow special skills. No healing is allowed, ok don’t put in healers use minions. Way to simple. Only thing raid tournaments are good for is to fill your heroes chest. Now in raids I have found a similar experience. I don’t know the math of the drop chances but. I’ve been into diamond and the reward chests give are really not worth it. I’ve gotten far more mats from D rank hits on 8-9* Titans then by opening hero chests on higher loot tiers. Most of my friends had a similar experience. So for raids only thing that is left is the leaderboard. Now if you have the drive to be top 100 in your local area or in general, all the power to you but most players don’t have that drive and people who come in and out of top 100 list are a small fraction of the playerbase. So both raids and raid tournaments do benifit from stronger 5 * heroes but they themselves are unrewarding and mostly uninteresting aspect of the game. This final part mostly covers the second point in the introduction so I’ll quickly go over it in this paragraph again.“heroes that are actually good at things suffer because the aspect of game that they are good at is uninteresting” I want to specify one thing, by saying “uninteresting” I understand that interests are a subjective thing so saying this so abruptly would be wrong, what I actually mean is that they are not rewarding enough. Again on The topic of raids and tournaments heroes that work great in these aspect of gameplay suffer due to the unrewarding nature of these aspects and general “uninteresting” situation that they hold. A few words on titans: titans require very specific heroes, namely: 1- buffer (Wu or ravnir or tarlak) 2-deff down (in the anti color of the Titan) 3-deff down in anti color of Titan(and there are few of these heroes for each color) 3-high attack for tile damage. And 4 & 5 could be filled by personal preference. Some hard to get but great heroes do not fit in this very narrow needs altho I should say that overall titans are quite rewarding unlike some other aspects chough raids. To conclude this paragraph PvE, alliance wars and titans use very nishe heroes and makes some very good strong heroes in their own right feel like unnecessary work. Raids and raid tournaments try to fill this gap of “why do I need these heroes” but fail because they are very unrewarding and tedious.

Now if you are still reading you really must be interested so let’s finish of by discussing the last point. Before I do so I encourage you to start the talk comment your thoughts and criticize me if you think that that I am wrong about something, trust me I would wish nothing less then getting proven wrong.

“most heroes in our tab do nothing that makes summoning more of a targeted grind and development extremely slow.” Now what do I mean by this. My tab is full of level 1 4*s almost 80 of them some duplicates, most of them of varying types. Even with the new building if I only use these heroes to get other 4* heroes the only thing that will change is that I’ll have 80 different level 1 unused 4* heroes. I do not want to use them as food, they costed to much for a few thousand xp. Xp was never a problem for me. I get enough 1 and 2 stars to get my 5*s to level 70 and 80. So the question remains, what do I do with these heroes? And honestly I don’t have the slightest of clues. For now I am keeping them saying: " eventually I’ll level them up" for a game that revolves around heroes this is a bad sign, a player should not be making decisions to keep not so useful heroes and have a full tab just in the hopes for some day the player will level them because there will be nothing else to do.

Additionally since I began the game I only have accumulated 4 mystic rings. 4 rings in 10 months! I keep getting these 5*s to level 70 and stoping. The rates at Wich you find mats do not come in accordance with rates at Wich you get new heroes.

Lastly I want to pull your attention to summoning portal. To analyze I want to compare the situation to another game called AFK arena (disclaimer: when I use AFK arena as an example please note that I am only taking it’s hero system and summoning system into account I am not reviewing the game as a whole). In both games you summon to get a specific hero that you really want. For E&P it usually the HOTM in AFK arena it’s sometimes the new heroes that came out of a hero of a specific faction. the difference is apearent when you summon X10. In E&P when you summon X10 you rather get the hero you wanted or you don’t. If you did, that’s great the summon served it’s purpose and now you are stuck with 9 expensive food. If you didn’t get the hero then you just payed way to much for couple of thousand xp. Mostly you won’t power up those 4s and probably you are over 3 and use them as food. The feeling of summoning is to achieve something that there is and task to be done and eather you fail or you succeed both ways you are stuck with expansive food basically xp that you would’ve gotten regardless of summoning. On the other hand in AFK arena since each hero goes through different stages of power and they need duplicates of themselves and heroes from the same faction, Summoning has a double purpose (for those of whom don’t know AFK arena it’s like imagine if all heroes of E&P had 1,2,3,4 and 5 star versions , but only some heroes reach 5 stars and only some reach 4 stars let’s say every hero reaches 3 stars basically they cap at different stages but almost all of them are given to you in 1 or 2 star from and you have to power them up to 3 star and above by feeding the same heroes and same color heroes). If you want a specific hero you go for it, but at the end of the day you are not super disappointed, you did not waste your money and every hero that you got is still really useful it’s more of a resource gathering type of feel rather then task achievement kind of feel. Now I do not think that changing to AFK arena system is a solution, honestly I don’t know what the solution is I’m not a game designer.

In conclusion this “rant” if you want to call it is not to bash E&P developers or to belittle them. This I. My opinion is a healthy criticism of a major aspect of the game from a concerned player. I hope you the reader will develop this topic and together we though discourse can identify better what the problems are if any and what the possible solutions are and hopefully E&P development team looks at the discussion and get a inspiration for a further update for the game.

Thank you to anyone that read the whole thing and thank you to anyone that started but skipped to the end as well :smiley:

Sincerely, a concerned player

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Thanks for your thoughts

I didn’t get a chance to read all of it but I’d like to talk a bit about one quote.

I get it. From my perspective when I see this statement the first thing that comes to mind is that raid rankings are the most obsolete metric.

Regardless of what heroes you use everyone can beat everyone. There needs to be some better tracking of who is actually the best over say a one year period if there is such a thing - random boards are not exactly conducive to a ranking system that claims to show who is the best at strategising or winning

But objectively there are some heroes that are much better than others. All Heroes that resurrect their team mates (no not Atomos) are in my mind one of the best which is what makes this game so annoying sometimes: the best heroes are exclusive to those that are really lucky or have cash to spend.

I also find it frustrating because it deprives all players from the opportunity to strategise with all heroes available but I get it, the devs want to restrict supply to increase profit

Anchor has his opinions (as does 7dd rankings)… I’ll just leave it at that. No need to get started.

I’ll add, constructively, that not every hero fits everyone’s play style. Yeah there are some heroes no one can mess up, but some of the more niche heroes are better in some players hands than others, because of playstyle.

Emblems, because of the um… underwhelming rate they drop… I do feel that building your 5 star war defense, then giving to key 4 stars you always use is a great strategy. 5’s are ok too if they are key classes and regular use.

The most important and least discussed aspect of heroes is their synergies. Heroes do not fight battles; rather, teams of heroes fight battles. Learning where the synergies are between your heroes is vital to success, once you get past the stage of “yay, I have five 4* finally!”

If you raid with the same team al e time, you’re either lazy. Raids are a low-stakes opportunity to try out potentially interesting groungs.

Which isn’t to say that the OP doesn’t have a number of very good points:

  • some heroes just don’t work in practice, lr at least I can’t find a compelling use for some.
  • the extreme reliance on RNG to obtain heroes and needed ascension mats is discouraging. BTW this only gets worse as your roster gets more complete.
  • some heroes have exactly one function, e.g. Guinevere as defensive tank. If that function is for a part of the game you find interesting, then it feels like a drag.

But I would contend that nearly all heroes can play well in the right team—often even when combined with just one other soulmate. Guinevere and Onatel, e.g., are pretty good together on offense. Wars really force you to think about how to make the most effective use of your roster!

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First and foremost, players makes the difference more then a hero.
Of course having better hero help you, but i always think that a better hero in poor hands is worse then a bad hero in good hands.

Then luck do his part too, but overall a game tend to balance things, and even if some heroes are undeniably better then others, some people are awfully better then others, so the first difference can be overcome by the second.

So why we have 5*? Why some are better then others?
Because you need time and skill to use them, and top players can be top players with them rather then “normal” ones.

Then you have all the synergies and color stacking situations as other said, or raid rules that reverse or nullify that advantage, but that’s doesn’t change the fact that every person could improve with a better hero.

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