Stop living in a world that thinks Guinevere needs to be nerfed just because you see her as a tank on a lot of the top ranked teams.
It’s not Guin that makes the team hard to beat…its her supporting cast and troops. Anybody with the right purple heroes and board can slaughter Guin but if you dont have heroes and troop support that can also withstand and defeat her allies then you wont win.
Teams with Merlin and Hansel or Gretel can stop Guin from firing with the right board…especially Hansel being a fast manta hero. If you plan on beating Guin, you just cant game plan for her. Choose the right team of heroes to destroy her whole team and you wont find yourself complaining about her needing to be nerfed.
I was once ranked #29 with a 3840 team after beating a team ranked #16 in the world. It can be done…JUST DO IT.
The reason she needs to be nerfed is every new tank role hero gets nerfed before being released because their special move interacts with Guinevere and makes them nearly undefeatable.
Guin isn’t unbeatable she’s just broken. She is the most used tank in game and completely changes the entire meta. The diamond level and wars are monotoneous and boring becuase of her. The most used double color stack is purple because of her regardless of the fact sartana isn’t the strongest sniper in game her and the even rarer guardian panther are overly represented because of the influence of guin. Even ignoring how badly guin changed the meta.
She also makes any other tanks nearly impossible to balance due to her support ability on defense. She makes flanking hero’s stronger as well by providing heals and defense on top which is why other supposedly tanks are nerfed due to the chain reactions caused by guin. Both aegir and boss wolf was notoriously nerfed in beta due to the interaction with guin. Making both of those tanks inferior to her in the process. Everyone talks about how easy she is to beat once you are stacking strong colors however guin is currently the only hero in game that requires such measures to beat reliably. None of this should be acceptable.
The real question isn’t just why not to nerf guin but how do we move the game forward with guin and be able to create tanks that are just as strong or stronger in the game without her breaking the game along side them. To be fair you added nothing new to the conversation other then don’t nerf guin she can be beaten which was said about 1 million times and doesn’t answer any of the issues people have with guin.
Agree. Guinevere can easily be defeated with the right heroes.
What makes her challenging, as with any good hero, is the ENTIRE defense team and how those heroes play off each other.
As with any game — You’re going to have your better heroes/cards and not so good ones. It just so happens that Guin is one of the better ones, with respect to tanks. However, Guinever is far from impossible.
I dont have guin. .
But Dalilah or Aaron are good tanks too
And why does not SG think of balancing the game using its own mechanisms? Indeed, it is not only Gin, it is what accompanies it, but, given that there is a cap, why not use that cap? Give a higher value to Gin, Hel, GVM, etc and lower the cap 15 or 20 points, that would make using Gin and GVM, for example, forced to use minor heroes in the rest and would balance.
The person with double Guin flanks doesn’t think Guin needs a nerf. I’m kidding but I admire your defense team.
Bro, everyone responding to this thread most likely has beaten Guin teams. @Sanchezsam2 brought up some good points about Guin but instead of arguing with those points you only responded to the least important part of his reply.
As I’m entitled to do. I dont argue points…I make statements…period
I am always happy to read encouraging messages. Your message also includes an ecouraging aspect;
Guinvere is not untouchable, but choose the right heroes to beat her and her supporting heroes.
@Rook already created a well-visited thread about this in Beating Guinevere?. Apart from making the same statement, players have been giving each other advice about what heroes can be used effectively. Exactly as this thread, your message also includes a helpful aspect about what heroes to use. Even if it wasn’t your attention to add anything new, forum-visitors might feel encouraged neverthless.
As @Sanchezsam2 wrote down in detail there is a possibilty to improve the game a lot, by nerfing her in some way. Nerfing her (or making other heroes more worthwile) would give us more options for hero-combinations regarding defense teams. Also more options to use your collection of heroes more effectively defensive- and attacking-wise. I think we all would love that, I would at least.
His reply does in my opinion deserve more than a personal-making answer in which you even compare him with the ‘‘back of a person’’ (first 3 letters in assumption). If you leave out that last sentence your message will still make the exact same point!
In fact, all he did was make other statements just as you did! Now you have just made yourself come out looking like those exact 3 letters, while he definitely did not. None of us wants that, right?
I would have loved to read a message from you making a statement (hopefully with arguments) about wether you agree with his opinion or not.
I agree that Guin is not invincible. Totally far from that.
If I have to nerf Guin, it would be that there are too many Guins in the diamond league. The defense is so monotonous to the point it’s boring. Either Guin or GM for most of it. I don’t even see Ares much anymore. Defense is now slowly lacking imagination for most players. It’s come to a point people not thinking of ways to improve anymore but more like just get a Guin first and get the rest later.
My opinion is that Zeline is more of a pain in the a** than Guin.
Nerf or not, when I get an opponent with Guin I reroll by default. When the opponent has Vivica or Delilah in the middle you can simply shoot your gems at them and let them heal/buff defense until a few heroes are charged and finish this healer off.
Likewise when they have Li Xiu in the middle, it’s pretty much them same strategy. you unleash gems at her, yes she messes up the mana once or twice but the regular attacks eventually finish her off.
With Guin however, she keeps healing AND messing up your mana, so you need an above average board (multiple combos) to kill her. So that seems pretty OP to me.
I agree. Zeline is tough. Guin is way to easy to beat.
The only statement you made was about yourself and your lack of understanding the issue. You just come off as petty and whiny. Guin is broken regardless of the fact people have beaten her because Nothing is unbeatable in a game of random tiles.
Personally I would love to see multiple tanks that are just as strong as guin. Boss wolf, aegir, Thorne, Richard, Justice, elkanen, heck even guardian owl are all designed with high defense and hitpoints and low atk with defensive specials. All of which are vastly inferior as tanks. Some were just poorly made and some of them specifically nerfed because of guin. I would have liked to seen aegir been a decent tank (as a weak color to gravemaker he would have taken away much of graves complaints) instead he’s mostly useless as a hero. His main ability was health sharing and auto damage heals which are both negated by zeline and every debuff hero in game. Secondly he is hard countered immediately by the next hero of the month which is going to be a much more widely available green guardian panther. So basically aegir is going to be a tank whose special does very little unlike guin whose mana drain is always useful, has a strong color defense and whose heal actually provides immediate help to herself and flanks. Her mana drain. Prevents any hero from immediately debuffing her def buff or heal. She’s designed extremely poorly. She needs to be nerfed and other tanks which are widely regarded as some of the worst hero’s in game need to be buffed. She’s broken the game to the point diamond level revolves around countering guin. Which no other hero in game requires. Not even grave or zeline both of which are also considered overpowered but at least they haven’t changed the entire meta as guin has.
Guin is not broken. She might be the best defensive tank, but she is consistently beatable (as has been pointed out) and other defensive tanks can also be very effective.
Moreover, she is relatively useless for farming, events, Titans, raid attack and AW attack. So she is a specialist with unique characteristics that are valuable in one particular aspect of the game. Many heroes are like that. Wu has characteristics that are uniquely useful for attacking Titans, for example, and Alby has characteristics that are uniquely useful for raid and AW attack.
There is no good reason to nerf Guin.
Yes there is. So we can have a new tank that doesn’t get nerfed to death in Beta because Guinevere makes them too strong or vice versa.
You’re saying it’s okay to have one viable hero as center at top level.
Multiple heroes are viable as tanks - too many even to list, depending on the purpose of your team. I assume you meant to refer only to defensive tanks. But even in this limited role, multiple heroes are viable at the top level: Delilah, Aeron, Zeline, and Gravemaker (though I wouldn’t use him myself) leap to mind from recent HOTM alone.
Guin is probably the best and that’s fine. She’s not the best by an unreasonable distance, she remains beatable, and if she wasn’t the best then another hero would be.
If multiple tanks are viable then why is Guinevere center in 90% +/- with Gravemaker who you contend is a horrible tank in 2nd place in top 100? Seems by your own reasoning that Guinevere is the only tank choice for top 100 players. Sure, there is the one guy that runs Delilah with 4 slow heroes and a few Boss Wolf and a couple Hel but for the most part Guinevere is it, not because she is overpowered but because another viable top 100 tank is never released due to her interactions in Beta. This is a long-standing issue.
Guin is the tank of choice for players in the top 100 because to raid your way to the top it helps to have a pretty good selection of heroes, and once they’re there players naturally choose what they think is the best tank for their defence. Most have Guin, most think Guin is the best tank, so most choose Guin.
(Many structure their teams poorly making them easy targets, indicating that perhaps they don’t understand how Guin is effective. Maybe they’re just succumbing to groupthink.)
None of this is indicative of any problem. If we could see what the top 100 attack teams are, I think we would see some heroes dominating those teams too. That too, would not indicate a problem. The same can be said for Titan teams, event teams and even farming teams. Some heroes are better at particular jobs than others. That is just fine.
So in your opinion Guinevere is fine. I call this the Wu Kong fallacy, just because he’s the only way to score big doesn’t mean he is required. I guess we have Tarlak as an option but he was HOTM so he’s not available to everyone.
If you object to Wu and object to Guin then at least you’re being consistent. I don’t see any reason to object to either (as a player who had neither until relatively recently). There’s nothing wrong with some heroes being exceptionally effective at particular roles.