Grimm things about E&P noticed after 4 months of playing

“If there’s no data, my opinion must be correct.”

No thanks. You know, I hope, that’s a bizarre and irrelevant request. Only SGG can release relevant data. The only request that matters is that SGG release the origin of their RNG so that it can be evaluated.

“Even if I explained it to them, I don’t think they’d understand.”

Genuinely curious, if SG did publish all their code, would that actually be enough?
As people already disbelieve their statements, would anyone believe that the code was genuine?

In which case, would it have to be independently verified and by whom?


Hello SG. Please release your source code.

1 single player

@JonahTheBard, @zephyr1 do either of you have the link to the thread where the players actually collected a robust dataset to prove board randomness? I can’t remember the thread title, and when I search, it’s lost in the clutter of people avowing their “rigged board” conspiracy theories

That question can’t be answered until it’s released, obviously.

Of course the source matters, and SGG has never shown themselves to be anything other than uncommunicative and untrustworthy. When an aspect of their game is broken and/or sucks, they blame the players, and then people come to the forums clamoring to defend them. It’s just the way some people are, whether you call it Stockholm Syndrome, false consciousness, or a “servant’s heart.”

My point, for the millionth time, is that there is zero data other than the origin of the RNG (yes, along with a detailed rundown of how the source has been modified) that matters. Thus, there are two camps: God exists, God doesn’t exist. I understand that this is a forum that assumes SGG are benevolent gods and poor people “get what they deserve,” but to pretend that’s not just blind faith is frustrating and helps defraud new players.

Here :slight_smile:


Yes, these! Thank you! I’ve bookmarked them so I can find them for next time.

Now we just need @TheDayHasCome to read them and come up with a counterargument beyond “Lies! All lies!”


Couldn’t one argue that you are equally “blind” in your disbelief of the evidence gathered and presented…?

And just as much as you think that the “believers” are frustrating & unbeneficial to new players; could they not have exactly the same opinion of the “nay-sayer” camp?

My point is that it’s all perspective… No point getting frustrated / whatever about the other camp… That just leads to discussions degenerating into flag-festivals & moderator intervention… My suggestion is to read what the other camp has put forward with a semi-open mind


This bit is surprising to me, most of my own titain wanted chests have been pretty good while my individual titan chests are garbarge 80% of the time. I get a lot more excited about opening the wanted chest. :thinking:

You could, but here’s the difference:

I’m trying to expose fraud, defenders are trying to keep it hidden in order to get people to spend money.

SGG and its defenders want people to keep spending money, but don’t want to be honest about how that money is being spent. Posting odds may be enough legally (MAY be), but companies like SGG are exploitative to begin with, so it’s odd that people want to believe they are somehow morally developed enough to be honest about the RNG’s functionality.

The data presented is about starting tiles, and is irrelevant to the discussion I’m having because it’s not about starting tiles, it’s about distribution of random results in a game regardless of how they are generated (but it’s still part of the process). It’s like saying one person got rich in America so the system isn’t rigged. Bollocks.

I’ve made the argument many times before, and snarky forum members just attacked me and mods laughed. We can try again, though.

Here is a random assortment of numbers:


Here is another one:


Part of the problem with your side of the argument, is its proponents (why are they all so mean if it’s just data?) want to sometimes claim that randomness occurs in short sets and sometimes they want to claim that randomness can’t be judged unless we look at infinity numbers.

If you want to look at finite sets, then what I posted above is absolutely indicative of true randomness.

If you want to look at an infinite set, then what I posted above is absolutely indicative of true randomness.

Do you understand now that we agree and that starting tile boards (which ARE admittedly manipulated by SGG code rather than being random) are irrelevant to the discussion? That’s just one aspect, and can’t be judged by finite sets that represent a tiny fraction of the randomness generated by the game in a minute.

Also, this is a game, not a randomness simulator. The distribution of outcomes matters. If SGG told you that the odds were correct, but you were always going to be assigned a string of numbers like those above, would you still play? Maybe, but if the RNG distribution is ■■■■ then the game is irrelevant. Let me demonstrate how this could be fixed by SGG pretending this is a game and not a way to break down players’ mental health and exploit it for profit.

  1. If I go into a Raid and there are only 12 tiles of my color in the first, say, 200 tiles, which happens all the time, the game could be programmed to ask if I want to concede. That would go a long way toward goodwill, since SGG knows my time is about to be wasted and I don’t. They can control that, but they don’t, which is reason 1 that their implementation of randomness is bad, and matters.

  2. The game should not be programmed to give the illusion that numbers are generated on the fly. This gives people the false impression that they have a fair chance at a pull every time they pull, but that’s not correct. A 10-pull is a single set, pre-determined.

  3. Ditto something like Miss Chance. If I’m about to win a raid, but the tiles are going to miss 30 or 40 times in a row so that the opponent can win, the game should simply end the raid.

Since we know true randomness doesn’t exist here, all I want is SGG to be honest about that. They are not. The game is designed to hide that from players, and to give them the false impression that they have fair distribution.

Let’s take something like Magic the Gathering. If I buy a box of Magic, I’ll get a full set. Have you ever wondered why that is, when individual packs are randomized? It’s because they know that in order for the game to be played, players have to have cards. In order to get players to buy cards, there has to be some kind of ADJUSTMENT to pure randomness.

The other reason they do this is because if people were buying packs and one pack had all commons and another pack had every rare/foil/unique/whatever card in it, very few people would buy packs. That’s how this game works. This game has winners and losers like that, folks that get 3x HotM on a 10-pull and folks that pull 200 and barely get a 4*. Of course, the “pure randomness” people will conveniently start talking about the infinite set at times like these, and then reject the infinite set when they want to talk about starting tiles.

The game should simulate randomness better FOR A GAME, which is my only point. The fact that it is so bad at simulating randomness for a game points to a couple of things: Devs aren’t good, or there are motives for hiding the way randomness is distributed here (see above). The motive, of course, is making money off suffering, and as the current health crisis has shown, there are a LOT of people who believe in making money off suffering. I understand they’re allowed here, but so should be the people who reject it.

If you truly feel that way, why are you continuing to support SG by playing the game? I guarantee that if I don’t trust the way a company conducts its business, I don’t support that company with my time, effort, words, or dollars.

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That’s a terrible, terrible response. Just what I expected.

So why are you still playing? It’s a serious question. Your actions (playing the game and supporting the company) are in direct contrast to your professed beliefs. It makes no logical sense.

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All true. Only the very naive still believe this game is not manipulated (rigged!).
Even though SGG still claims it is not, they lie.

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No, you answer my post. Genuinely.

You haven’t asked me anything. What’s your question?

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Stop trolling so awfully lol

My question is: How do I know you read and correctly understood my post?

Excellent points, Zepson.

:roll_eyes: Those are not “points”. That’s just more baseless agreeing with you.

Your argument starts from the assumption that the fraud exists. If you start from that assumption, you can probably prove a lot of things. But the burden is on you to prove it exists first, and you’ve done nothing of the sort. In fact, I suspect it is impossible to prove either way without access to information that SGG is definitely not going to make available to anyone.

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