He’s feeling nasty
Which paths did you chose in the talent grid?
Almost all defence and health - combined with Frida his hit is already hard enough - I just need him to take a hit and live from most of the 5*s in the game - I think Kage and Liana still kill him in 1; but not sure anyone else does
Unemblemed for comparison
90 pts of defence, 108 Health and 66 pts of attack so far
Looking good! I’m having a hard time choosing his pathway. Leaning towards beefy (or rather less flimsy) but all attack Grimm is so tempting…
I fight almost exclusively 4K+ defence teams that hit hard - I need him to live. Kiril, Grimm and Frida charge together and combined they kill most things they hit. I just need all three to live long enough to hit - which makes my decision easy.
For all offence I am taking Liana that way.
I have an exact twin to that Grimm, at +8 with the same build.
I fight almost exclusively 4K+ defense teams that hit hard — I need him to kill things.
I’ve gone Attack build because I’m emphasizing the existing strengths of each hero using the Talent Grid, rather than trying to “fix” their shortcomings.
Going the attack-as-first-priority route picks up only 36 less defense and 108 less health than always prioritizing those would.
By +20, a full Attack build Grimm will pick up 69 defense and 107 HP in addition to 111 attack. A full Defensive build Grimm will pick up only 36 attack.
Your build is presumably even less of a difference than the extreme version if you chose attack at any of the path choices instead of always maximizing both Defense and HP.
I actually see the full Attack build as a fairly balanced approach — it adds substantively to Attack, Defense and HP.
And while the possible extra 36 Defense/108 HP could help survivability in some cases, I see the 75 increase in attack — nearly 10% of his base — as a worthwhile tradeoff for that.
EDIT: oh, also, full Attack build makes his abs even more rippling (cross linking for future research reference)
The two options:
+def/+health Grimm 4+20:
A: 752 D: 636 H: 1357
+att Grimm 4+20:
A: 827 D: 600 H: 1249
The average slash attack from a 5* defender will hit them for:
+d/+h Grimm: 150 hp
+a Grimm: 162 hp
So, the slash survivabilities are:
+d/+h Grimm: 9 slashes
+a Grimm: 7.7 slashes
Basically, you’ve bought yourself one extra slash attack.
In contrast, the special and tile damage on +attack Grimm is boosted by about 14%. This translates to an extra 128 damage per special.
But perhaps more important is the extra tile damage. On average, the difference in attack stat will strip a tile off the number required for a 3-stack kill for a red tank with appropriate troop (think: GM, Mitsuko, Ares).
looking at that stat you can add Joon, Magni, Alasie, King Arthur and Gregorion to one shot kill him if paired to high mana troop.
Thanks as always for doing the math getting my opinion confirmed is always nice
Except his attack, combined with his colleagues who charge at the same moment - is more than enough to kill everything they encounter. You can’t “extra kill” enemies “special dead”. But he can only regular kill them if he’s alive to fire.
There are thresholds beyond which returns diminish. Grimm’s offence (+Kiril +Frida) is one of those situations. Extra attack is sexy and looks badass, but it’s just unnecessarily overkill. Defence, and life, on the other hand, are at a premium for this character. He neeeeeds it bad. And it balances him way more than glass canon offensive attack mode does.
And in a solo situation full Attack makes sense - best defence is a good offence and all that. But he isn’t deployed solo, so DEF build emphasizes maintaining the ability to devastatingly strike the enemy for longer.
Perhaps the difference is that I run Mono? I’m already in an all-or-nothing mode. I don’t need to boost tile damage as much as I need to live 2 more off colour matches until the board comes around. In a 3/2 or rainbow, I could see attack having more value.
Less important running mono; which I do.
For specials, sure. But tile damage matters, and as @Garanwyn noted, the extra attack makes him a faster tile killer.
And even dead heroes contribute to tile damage, if it really comes down to the wire.
Bumping attack is like having more of the attack from a larger stack. It makes it easier to run less high risk stacks than mono, while still achieving easier kills from tiles.
For a 3 stack, the additional attack bumps matter.
For mono, you could probably run some 3* in your mix, and still kill most enemies with the same number of tiles. Like you said, you can’t extra kill an enemy.
With a mono team it’s all about surviving long enough to get your needed tiles.
Playing a 3-2 or 3-1-1 or even 2-x stack doesn’t have the same attack strategy as mono, and has a bigger payoff to bumping attack.
Because Of the non linear increase in damage I still believe - through about 4 months of experimenting - that mono is more efficient and less risky overall than 3/2.
At least it has been for me. Maybe I’m the game’s best mono player or worst 3/2 player or somewhere in between but my win rate with 3/2 hover between 65-75 percent and with mono it’s approaching 85-90