Grimble not damaging QoH allies

I’m not sure if it’s what you had in mind, but I asked about the blue chain hitters earlier in the thread (Finley, Misandra, CoD). Their specials are written recursively, so I posed the question of what happens if the first hit kills the card minion - does the chain get to target a new enemy?

I have none of these heroes, so I depend on others’ experiences to answer those questions.

What I’m saying is we have a sort-of answer from SGG that it’s “working as intended” and we are trying to figure out what that means. Whether we think it makes logical sense or not is irrelevant to that since it currently is what it is.

One way for it to make sense is if the minion casts the ability on the hero each turn it exists so the hero still has the ability when the minion dies for that turn. It is the owner that taunts, not the minion. That then fits with SGG’s “working as intended”; whether we agree with it or not is another issue entirely.

Boril’s card doesn’t say “the caster gives themself and nearby allies counterattack,” it says that they counterattack.

It’s a question of who is the subject of the sentence. You covered that in grade school, right? How the subject is that which does the action?

Boril’s life ending doesn’t end the action for other heroes, because they are part of the subject, too, and therefore can do it themselves.

Think of it in terms of buying beers. The analog of how Boril’s card is written would be “Boril and his friends buy 5 drinks.” Boril’s friends can still buy the remainder of their drinks even if Boril gets kicked out by a bouncer.

The analog of how QoH’s card is written would be “Card Minions buy the QoH her drinks.” Who buys the QoH her drinks if all the Card Minions have been kicked out?

Not the only way by any stretch.

Another, more plausible way, is that they didn’t bother considering an edge case and wrote the code wrong because for the overwhelming majority of them, there was no difference, in effect, between how it currently works and how the cards say it works.

Also, you keep saying “turn” which is NOT how it behaves; if there are no card minions alive, you can target other heroes with impunity, even if there were card minions alive at the beginning of the turn.

You’re just gonna take for granted that SG is correct?

My first post here I told Petri he’s wrong. So, that’s sorta my thinking here :stuck_out_tongue:

I disagree with you in the “turn” thing. I don’t personally believe that’s a reasonable explanation.

The targeting thing OTOH. I do think that’s a reasonable way to explain it.

Unfortunately, I also think for this particular interaction it is suboptimal. Niche hero can’t even do the one thing he should be good at, ya know. So I think SG at least got it wrong in that way. And also, unless their reasoning is the targeting (or some other very logical behind the scenes game rule) then imma keep calling BS

I’m more confused than when this story started, but I could go for a beer now.

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That’s a good point. If you killed the QoH minion with a Magni Blast, THEN activates grimblr, the Taunt would be gone and Grumble would hit everyone and their mother

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Whatever.

I am not saying I agree or disagree. I am saying that is SG’s position, just as their position is that summons and gems are random. So far all tests we’ve done provide data that support the random position. But without some idea on the mechanism we have no way of testing the minion position. Show me I’m wrong with data and I’ll be happy to say so. Arguing based on suppositions and what you THINK should happen gets us nowhere.

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Apparently you missed the fact that the entire discussion was about how the evidence doesn’t align with what should happen, based on every other piece of evidence we have to date.

No, I didn’t. But your comment doesn’t surprise me.

The other ones I can think of, are Sonya and Caedmon. They first target one hero with damage and then target all enemies (that can be targeted) with dispel. I am not 100 sure, but when they are blind for example, I think they can still dispel enemies even if the damage part has missed.

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I think maybe there is a confusion about “Taunt woking as intended” and “QoH working as intended”. If Black Knight has Taunt and him and his allies have minions, it makes sense that his Taunt persists and his allies keep their minions and do not receive damage.
But as discussed many times above, QoH does not have Taunt (you can check when her minion is alive there is no Taunt buff on her, only Special Skill defense), her minion does. So when it goes away, Taunt should go away too.

Another interaction with minions: when Leonidas deals damage and kills a Fox Minion, his target is affected by the removing mana part of his special?

Edit: minor text fixes.

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It does, on the next turn. I think some people view the minion like a special or intrinsic part of the hero…it isn’t. Its like its own mini-hero, and if it has a special it can cast then that special will persist until its duration is over, or - one would assume - until it is dispelled

The fox minions don’t prevent removal of mana… is there a minion that does that? I can’t remember…

I think with Leo the “Target” is the enemy hero, who has a Fox minion. Leo damages the minion first, and should remove mana from the target (since minions don’t currently have mana or block mana).

I’m with you on the “mini-hero.” If a hero or mini-hero dies, they stop doing their thing, though. I think the question is confused by Kage since his bullet points play out separately and in order, so we imagined that other heroes would play out the same way.

A dead hero or mini hero can’t taunt.

BUT I am guessing we were missing a hidden “targeting” step that doesn’t impact Kage, because he only hits a single target anyway.

This is another scenario I was thinking of that could help to see if that’s how it’s going or not:

BK is up with taunt active… but almost dead. Neith fires and BK dies:

  • do all enemies get the mana reduction?
  • Or does BK soak the entire special?

This would be a good test for the taunt mechanic…yes.

You correct, I should be using the term duration. Which could be as short as the impact of a cards special or as long as many turns.

Red Hood’s foxes prevent mana drain. Isn’t how they are called, Fox Minions? Or is it Forest Minions? Anyway I meant hers.

I also agree with the mini-hero thing, and also this is the whole reason of this thread. Imagine the minion was a separate hero. You could check his status and it would show the Taunt buff. When it dies, Taunt goes away. Which is what happen if we fire another special after the minion is killed, but in the same turn. If two Grimbles fired I imagine the second one could target all enemies just fine, in this situation with no other active taunter.

If Taunt is intended to block the whole special, then I agree it does not matter if the card or Black Knight dies.

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Ah sorry! I went and found Inari, thinking it was hers ya meant lol.

You are right on RH.

And I actually have RH! So I can test this, eventually. Good catch! I’ll see if I can hunt down a Leonidas here :slight_smile:

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I made a test with generic ones xD Shrubby was almost dead, Caedmon killed him with his Piercing Strike, but he was still able to prevent the dispel on allies.

I also recorded on video to confirm even if Sonya/Caedmon misses the hit on the target, the dispel still works independently on each target instead of missing entirely. Blind dispel - YouTube

So it seems the bullet points are independent, but Taunt soaks the entire special.

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Here is the question I would ask. If queen has minion up and say seshat and inari also have minions and you run grumble will he eat there minions with the queens during his run and still do no damage to the heroes? Cause if that’s the case he is working as intended. Can anyone test this?

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