Give a hand to Proteus

Even at that all of his card is written under the title " special skill"
Now it is really inconsistent when you have a special skill that dodges special skills and then a part of one special skill would not be dodged…

a part of a special skill must not be a special skill per se…
It’s programmed as status effect (as you see the golden sword on Gulli until the effect ends), not as special skill…

Sorry but that’s how it is…
no arguing here will change it :slight_smile:

2 Likes

Sometimes the inconsistency needed to be pointed out…even if the devs should choose to leave it the way they want…

i already addressed this in the rest of my comment. Gullinbursti’s berserk damage has the same card language as any other status effect in the game: “enemy receives damage.” does Inari dodge damage from an already-afflicted burn? poison? frost? water damage? the answer is no, Inari and all heroes buffed by dodge will still take ailment damage, so it’s not inconsistent for Gullinbursti’s berserk damage to always hit.

2 Likes

The point here is that the ailment in itself is part of a special skill…at what point was the ailment delivered? it is at that point that the dodge should be applied…that is the inconsistency even if it is delayed it is none the less a special skill that does damage!

There is long thread regarding this mechanism, some agreed it was wrong some support it but the point is everyone is trying to explain on behalf of the dev. Your explanation has not in anyway cleared the inconsistency.
If ailment which is part of spevial skill is to be applied on the enemies, at the point of application it should be subject to dodge if the special skill in itself can dodge special skills!

However if it is a passive skill, then it should be labeled as passive skill…

What if Proteus would be changed to stop mana gain and drop current mana to zero? Would that help him being stronger?

The problem here is everything is part of a special skill. For example burn damage is also part of the special skill.

But kadi c or any other dodger can’t dodge burn damage. They can dodge getting burn damage (which is a special skill) but once they have it they will suffer because that’s a status effect.

With gulli he doesn’t give them an effect via special skill, so they can’t dodge it, the status effect is cast on himself. But after 3 turns he does damage and just like active burn damage the dodger can’t do anything because no special skill involved, just a status effect.

3 Likes

Just like you said the Dodgers can dodge getting burn damage…and of course the ailment once applied its no longer subject to dodge.
But in the case of Gulli he kept the potential of the ailment to himself not on the enemies, after 3 turns its applied on the enemies …at that point of application on the enemies if enemies have defensive buff like dodge etc it should be subject to dodge or similar buff for consistency otherwise…a simple lazy approach to it is add" this effect bypasses all defensive buffs on his card."

Bear in mind he has to be alive and not repeat his special for his dmg to proc. So, in exchange of it being preventable in this way, his dmg is not preventable after proc. Only can be reflected or mitigated

Gullinbursti and An-Windr are unique in that they apply ailment damage by casting a buff on themselves instead of casting an ailment on the opponents. i think it’s a neat mechanic, especially the rush to try to kill them off (or make them re-proc the special since it resets the damage counter) before you take an insane amount of damage.

the buff aspect of their special doesn’t change the fact that it’s ailment damage, similar to any other ailment an enemy would already be afflicted by.

except that it’s not inconsistent. Gullinbursti and An-Windr read exactly the same way as any other ailment-damaging card. “enemies receive damage.” Vela says “enemies receive” water damage. Gravemaker says “enemies receive” burn damage. Gullinbursti and An-Windr read “enemies receive” damage.

there’s no reason it “should” be subject to dodge if it’s applied in the same way as any other ailment. just because the damage is delayed doesn’t change the nature of the damage itself: it’s ailment damage, similar to any other ailment an enemy might be already afflicted by. since dodge doesn’t prevent ailment damage, it’s not inconsistent.

funnily enough, i do agree that they should probably add language to the cards about bypassing defensive buffs because the one thing that isn’t clear until you see it in practice is that Gullinbursti and An-Windr still deal damage to all enemies even if the opponent has Taunt active.

3 Likes

No it isn’t, they just get damaged, but they never get any effect.

You can block him for example with mist. Than nothing will happen because after 3 turns he don’t cast something magically on the opponent.

Please read Gullinbursti card…a sample is provided above it says…" the caster deals 164% damage to all enemies…"
This card deals damage hence the damage should be subject to defensive buffs that is my point otherwise the card should state that the damage should by pass all defensive buffs!

Well they don’t just get damage, Gullinbursti cards says…the. Caster ( i.e Gullinbursti) deals 164% damage to all enemies…
This is at the expiration of 3 turn berserk…

Aehm, no.


Here you have the 2 cards. They read exactly the same and both can’t be dodged.

The only thing which is dodge able is velas effect, because it’s casted by a special skill and on the opponent. So dodge can work.
Gulli casts the effect on himself. No dodge possible.

When both are active, they are worded exactly the same. Target receive damage. Both can’t be dodged. Kadi can’t dodge one round water damage and get it the next round. It doesn’t work. Same with gulli. No dodge possible.

That’s my last post on this topic, because everything else I could say now would be a repetition of what I said before. If this doesn’t convince you, nothing what I could say would. Nice evening (or whatever timezone you read it ;))

2 Likes

Frankly, I do not need to be convinced :point_up_2:t2:, that is the portion of the card above that shows when it deals damage at which point it should be subject to defensive buffs if it is not then it is inconsistent…
Enjoy your day

That’s outdated.
That’s not what the card says at the moment :man_shrugging:

1 Like

Oh okay my apologies…using the details shown in a card earlier.
Thank you for the clarification :+1:

This is a complicated scenario to navigate, but I think a lot of people have done well explaining it.
To see it from another angle, the damage isn’t a direct result of him using his special, but an after effect, hence why it can’t be dodged. Think of it it as a single round of damage like burn or poison.
Another way to try to see it that way is to look at someone like Jack; his special could be dodged as it is him using it, however the bomb exploding later is an after effect, which isn’t a direct result of him using his special, so the bomb would ignore the dodge.
Also, the Tower of Magic heroes that have a chance to damage all enemies upon usage of a full charge would ignore dodge as well because it isn’t actually part of their special skill.

Proteus is a fine s4 hero… Along to buff him seems silly. I had way too many agwes… I don’t think i need to ask for him to be balanced… His time has come and gone…