GEMS are Gambling Chips..... You have a right to know the odds

Paying money for gems to win a desired return is no different to paying money for gambling chips at a casino in order to win a desired amount. Only thing is, a casino clearly by law announces the odds of you winning the desired return.

But with this game, I’m not sure, but they might be breaking the law by taking your money, giving you gems instead of gambling chips, and not letting you know what the odds are of you winning the desired return.

This is gambling with money, there’s no two ways about it. It definitely falls into the category of gambling.

Of course It’s not gambling when it comes to gems acquired playing the game because they were free to begin with, this could be the loophole. But money spent for gems (gambling chips) falls under the rules of gambling for a desired return with no odds posted.

It’s like betting on a horse to win but the bookmaker refuses to tell you what the odds are of that horse winning.

As a player who has financially purchased Gems (gambling chips) for a desired return, you have the right to know what the odds are of you acquiring that which you hope to win.

Does anybody know what the odds are of winning a 5 star hero is if I purchase 300 gems to spin the wheel?

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It’s not gambling. There’s no payoff.

I think it would be a good idea for SG to disclose the odds, btw, but they’re under no legal obligation to do so.

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You are wrong, There is a pay off, there is a desired return. Without that there is no purchase.
And posting the odds to purchasers of chip or tickets or anything that emulates them, you’ll find is a legal requirement.

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A payoff is financial by definition. (Unless you want to speak metaphorically, in which case you’ve strayed outside the legal realm.) There’s no payoff.

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There is at least one law which might be applicable it is in China:

Add there are the new rules of the Apple Store, which have been mentioned in this Forum before:

Both may not direct be applicable for E&P but they will be pretty sure in the future. The app gaming is becoming a big market and will sooner than later be regulated.

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Perhaps I’m the odd one out… But gems can be used to skip wait times. I’ve noticed that skipping the wait times for upgrading my storage costs less than skipping on my stronghold upgrade, so in my rush to reach level 20 I’ve chosen to use gems not for ‘gambling’ but to save loads of time.

I’ll eventually get plenty of 5* heroes… And I don’t need to know the exact odds of a tc20 to get there. You could choose to not spend money y’know, I think that would be the easier solution to your problem.

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Regulation of the specific Chinese kind, if applied in other jurisdictions, could certainly catch E&P and require them to disclose their odds. I think it will probably happen, eventually.

Gambling regulations, however. are irrelevant.

Someone knows some good chinese server? :face_with_monocle:

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When you buy things with cash in E&P, you always get a fixed and known return. I can’t recall any random offers available for cash.

When you buy things with gems, there is usually randomness.

But gems<>money. You can buy gems with cash, it’s true, but they are also earned in other ways. So I’m not sure that anything SG is doing steps across any legal lines. I assume that their lawyers have looked at this question.

Gems earned in game are not in question.

It’s the gems purchased for expected returns, like portals for epic & legendary, It’s literally a lottery purchase. Without disclosing the odds or chances you have of acquiring what you paid for.
If I knew that my chances were let’s say 10% then I would be happy with the lottery purchase.
But if the odds were say .005% then I would say “YOU’VE GOT TO BE KIDDING ME RIGHT” and quietly decline the lottery purchase.

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If I buy gems for $20, and spend them on epic Summons with the unspoken expectation that I will get a 5*, then I haven’t read the card:

Guaranteed Rare, Epic OR Legendary

What does it say? Cause it doesn’t say I’m gonna get this card, or necessarily any 5*…

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Anyone buying gems is doing so with a purpose. If that purpose is to gamble, then best of luck.

I know when I buy gems with the intent of hitting the summons gate for a 10x that it is random. I also have read alot of posts just like this that tell me many people did not like their results. If SG should do anything, I would suggest no new player be allowed to buy gems for any purpose until after signing in to this forum.

More than 20 characters, barely 2 cents

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3rd thread of yours bitching about something… I see a trend.

I tried my luck summoning 10 elemental heroes 4 times (only Blue still missing) and got no 5* hero.

So the odds are less than 1/40.

I don’t think I will even bother trying to summon a 5* Blue hero.

I understand your frustration, but this reasoning falls on one important point.

  • You buy gems with cash. And there’s a 100% chance you get your gems.

How you use those gems is completely up to you. Hence the legal workaround.

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This. Besides, showing the odds for pulling a 5* would quite certainly be a bad business strategy. Go tc20, I’d say! :slight_smile:

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I don’t think anybody is saying that any laws are being violated TODAY, but those laws are coming in the US.
There’s already several in the pipeline specifically related to disclosure of loot box odds.

Games are exploiting the crap out of the lack of regulation in this area and people have a right to know if their odds are 0.00001% or 5% of getting something decent.

I like this quote from an IP attorney that frequently works for game companies:
“Without pointing any fingers at anybody in the games industry, Whipple said, if you made a video slot machine and put it in a casino with the same kind of pay table used in most loot-box systems, “you would go to prison.” In other words, the odds in Vegas are better – because state law requires them to be.”

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In gambling, are you competing against the house? Yes. Does the law say legal gambling houses must sell you chips? Yes. Does the law say odds must be posted because you must be made aware every bet against the house is a losing proposition? Yes.

Any law say you have to go in a gambling house?

A key difference is that the pay-off from the electronic slot machines are redeemable back to cash. There’s an equivalence between chips and cash. Gems and the things they obtain are not redeemable back to cash, breaking the equivalence.

We have enough experience on the boards to be fairly confident that the odds of a 5* from an elemental summons is around 3%, possibly as high as 4%.

What I want to see are the odds on ascension packs. Those really bite.

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Feeling like you do some gambling instead of gaming, aren’t you? Yeah, like all of us. So, to sum up, they have to get rid of that stuff, or if you feeling lucky, go to real casino, like yggdrasil casino list tio play some real gamble, where you can win real money instead of some kind of pixels.

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