Frigg needs a big nerf

I am convinced that we are having a miscommunication.

Speed increase, missing reflect and increased stats.

This is more gradual. But with plenty of dispel/disable. The increased damage
(Either 40 or 170%…!) has proven to be an increased threat, not to mention…
Increased stats.


But now…let’s tie it all together!
How is the…trend… playing out?

@JekylandHyde your like, what…Level 150 now? This feels weird. Like I have to provide evidence that water is wet.

Again… were the weak buffed in that update? Are you seriously saying that S3 heroes needed that over Inari, Obakan, Thoth-Amun, Horghall?

S1’s get costumes not buff…
And if there is no trend…?
Then why did they make costumes?!

And so the trend continues. By next year:

And so on…
And so on…

2 Likes

Can we can keep the debate to the game, heroes, etc.? As soon as personal comments are made, it either shows a lack of substantial points to make or a level of debate that I am not going to participate.

So, are we able to debate the game without personal comments?

I would enjoy seeing where that Power # has ever meant anything at all.
Jade is 798 and The Hatter is 768. Only one of them is worth leveling IMO.
Costume Horghall at 794 compared to Guardian Panther at 765. Seriously, that power number is about as meaningful as the Team Power limitations.

RE: Quintus/Ursena/Killhare - 3 heroes that are Dark and hit all seems to ignore the entire card. Does Killhare hit harder than the other two? Certainly, as do most of Springvale and like most of Springvale there is a negative consequence to go with it. Ursena hits harder only if you have over 50% health left. She is certainly not the closer that is Quintus.

The last card details you are showing are for a hero that has yet to be released and is not relevant to this conversation. Look at the difference between C. Wu Kong in beta and what was actually released.

As for comparing 5 Darks that hit all, let’s compare 3 Fires that hit 3—shall we? Guess which one of these hits hardest? softest? Khagan (757)… Mitsuko (775) … Lady Loki (787) … and since then Reuben (782) … oh, and since you like to discuss yet to be released cars, how about Isrod (819!! oooh)?

APPLES/ORANGES in both of our scenarios.

Costumes are buffs.

S1 heroes are still very relevant in in some situations superior. I use s! everyday and I certainly use S1 in placing 8th in both Ninja Towers, and top 10 in the legendary events—in fact, I used some S1 heroes that were only at 3/70!!!

Please and thank you!
But I have reservations we will agree.
And that’s ok!

For me, inflated stats are adding up and make a difference. Just as emblems do. Which is the meaning of power.
But I agree that power should not be a sole dictator for decision making!
Noor should it be discounted either…

I included the entire card. Beyond that I am at a loss.

Both buffs and nerfs come to you in Balance Updates.
You do not pay for balance updates.
For me, that is a staggering difference!

?

2 Likes

Costume bonuses, to me, are not any different than family bonuses. Did Killhare (your example) need a family bonus? How about Ursena?

Costumes are different, not necessarily better, than the original.

Why did they make costumes?

They answer that question here:

I couldn’t find the answer to Why there

Costumes also have a mana speed bonus
But more importantly… they increase the stats of the original as well!

Which speaks volumes about Why,
Don’t you think?

Even if you didn’t have to pay for costumes. Just the stat boost alone is considerable!

It doesn’t make sense to buff S1’s
If they are just as good as S3

I have a conspiracy theory that costumes were needed because S1’s are in your TC.

And as the trend continues…
Let’s costume old Hotm next?

4 Likes

frigg needs a big nerf, def down, fast, hard hit, its to much…

I got her, but untested yet. In my opinion she needs a big buff, extrem weak healing bonus thats a shame, only once a time not every turn?, so useless and def down to -32 with 8 (!) green tiles, thats very rare situation. I faught her with Gormek (+20), Reuben (+8), Marjana (+10) and qas shocked. She hits me with dozent of greens, two times after refreshing, but I won the fight. Maybe there are some synergies with other heros behind paywall, normal Users dont get.

If you downgrade her on one side, so buff her on the other, maybe healing link, tankier stats, … and keep her as an top ranked hero.

best troll evar.

20 wtfriggs

You would be amazed, but I use C Brienne and, don’t even have an elemental down hero, with the help of a few diamonds she can drop def way down. Give an invisibility potion for her. I can hit over 100k with her, or Melia in yellow. Even nordri in blue. And these are mainly on 11 stars.

I wouldn’t be amazed at all - as I have seen with my own eyes my C Brienne get better scores than Frigg.

I am on 14* titans so >100K hits are rare (actually I have only ever had one, a 129K hit about a week ago).

The Melia thing is… interesting. I have fed all of mine away, but I could potentially swap our my Malosi for his highish (855) attack in favor of the crit up - The cirt up should in theory give a significant boost over the 350 attack loss as long as you have a decent number of tiles. Of course I would still have to keep her alive. She would go with G Jackal, Gillibilli, Ranvir, Joon

This Atlantis Rises might be interesting because of the above… I may actually try to pull for her!

Just change Frigg def down to something else as they changed Vela. It’s not Frigg the problem, but what’s follows.
Now higher and higher def tanks coming out, who holds your team up, Takes many matches and specials to break them, and to balance it out, bigger and bigger attack stats coming out too. Its OK, as these tanks are relatively passive, but while you try to kill the tank and maybe few others 2 fast hero fills up no time and those 2 hits clears your whole team full life. And they do that nearly to my emblemed Kunchen. If they carry on releasing heroes like this, the game will only depend on a very few moves and you either lucky with the board or no chance to survive. Thats a problem in my eye, as at that point its irrelevant what hero you take with you, they’ll die. The wrecking ball swings further and further with the new stats. I’ll still beat them sometimes, but surely the heroes who kill your team in 1 blow will be coming soon too. I know that nerfing hurts people who’s spending money , but if the nerf already happened to other heroes it would be unfair to leave all other op heros to run around. The same way as people say “don’t fight against them and learn to play” blah blah. Others could say “Why do you spend, if you know they’ll get nerfed”

Oops, made this draft awhile ago, and idk if it’s still relevant, but…

If nerfs need to be made to these heroes, assuming more are coming…

(Which I’m not a fan of - especially post-release, when buffing heroes is much more ideal - but clearly it’s unavoidable now)

Then why don’t we consider [only] nerfing them defensively?!

Since that seems to be the main issue here…

As their offensive capabilities will be collateral damage [in the fall-out] of [said] nerfs if this is to continue…

& Since offense is really where the [true] enjoyment factor lies, for almost anyone who plays, with just about any hero…

Well then, that would royally blow

(Think back to Telluria/Vela… but on an even more expensive, albeit less affecting, scale)

What I mean by that

So just like how there’s mechanics in place for Ratatoskr and Jott’s specific SS, why not do something similar in the cases of both Frigg and Odin? Where the tiles [defensively] don’t have as much of an impact as they do offensively. Where either:

  1. More tiles are required for maximum effect
  2. Damage/effects escalate in much smaller increments, or a diminishing % increase the more tiles in play
  3. The maximum effect is capped [earlier] (aka a lower number) for one, or both, of the effects

My Thoughts

As long as the hero [offensively] is unchanged, I say go ahead and do wtf you want with the hero defensively [for balance sake]. IDGAF about defense, but I do believe that Frigg and Odin deserve to stay at the top of their game [there], as players have expended quite a lot of resources with that single combination, and application, [in mind].

Ultimately, it’s just about finding a way for them to continue doing so without being as obnoxious about it as it seems some people [clearly] think they are [now].

Obviously, in another world...

I’d rather people take more time learning how to counter. That, and [more specific to this case] for the game to [finally] catch up by adding more tools [at the player’s disposal] for all seemingly “OP heroes”. Things such as buffs to older heroes and/or new hero counters released (especially in the 4* variety) to tackle said S3, event and ninja heroes. However, if a compromise must be made in order to restore “balance” - then the whole defense-specific thing seems to be the best, and most acceptable option, [left] on the table…

As really, isn’t that always the problem?! Heroes are way too overpowered defensively?! Therefore, shouldn’t we be focusing most of our attention there anyway?! (Common sense would tell you, so…)

Hey, maybe someone should take a second look at that whole concept… What could be changed? Let’s see…

(Kinda curious whether raid formations will aid [in that], or end up making matters worse…)

Or is this all too much to ask.. 🙄

Seems these days, asking for anything [besides nerfs] is too much to ask… so probably. They took the easy way out with Mitsuko too… sigh; the only real counter [we had] for Cobalt - obliterated. Seems the simplest answer, is now the only answer [in E&P’s case]… But that’s a rant for another post/thread :sweat_smile:.

3 Likes

I think the solution to all of the hero balance and complaints is to inflate base HP of all heroes x2-3.

Right now, there are several combinations of heroes that can easily decimate teams, but with fast and very fast essentially the meta, with such low HP it makes the game much less reliant on skill and much more reliant on luck of the board.

For all those people referencing Frigg being beaten by 4* teams and playing without skill, as heroes are becoming more and more powerful (and they are insistently hellbent on screwing up everything with “formations”), the advantage is leaning more so on the defending teams than offense.

Moral of the story, put everyone up to 3000+ HP and have raids and wars that last more than 20 seconds.

Seems it was relevant after all. Only they made Karnov’s attack even stronger from the def pool.

See the trend yet? Next year the heroes need to be even stronger than Karnov so that you can spend more money.
And that’s ok because new creeps are getting costumes. So that next creeps can be 6* heroes before any emblems are applied. So it’s fine.

~ you don’t need to use the upcoming costumes. They will also increase Killhare’s stats. Why increase Finley or Killhare’s stats? Because then it is ok to release what comes after!

How many of you still want to spend money on that?

Don’t nerf Frigg, unfortunately…you should never nerf anything ever again.
And forget about all buffs. Those are free. Players do not pay those! You have a better chance of seeing a pterodactyl in the sky, than seeing any buff rollout.

3 Likes

Going through 160+ heroes to hand pick 4 or 5 that prove a point does not equate to objective analysis. It is confirmation bias.

To quote myself, again, from above:

As for comparing 5 Darks that hit all, let’s compare 3 Fires that hit 3—shall we? Guess which one of these hits hardest? softest? Khagan (757)… Mitsuko (775) … Lady Loki (787) … and since then Reuben (782) … oh, and since you like to discuss yet to be released cars, how about Isrod (819!! oooh)?

APPLES/ORANGES in both of our scenarios.

Shall we discuss the S1 3* and S1 4* used in the last stage of the Ninja Tower by the winning player? Or possible the number of S1 heroes I have used for my dual 8th place and now 14th place finish?

As long as S1 heroes are used and winning, it seems to demonstrate that the buffs/nerfs work.

If one is so pessimistic about the motivations of the company, why would one still play the game?! I am baffled by those that swim in such a pool of negativity and never make the simple decision to get out of the water.

Best wishes.

5 Likes

Khagan slow
Mitsuko average
And the others hit all. Not hit-3

Maybe the apple for your Hit-3 fire for Khagan is:


Who is also average + dot + dd

I have always defended balance. And will revisit your:

This Easter. See you then!

1 Like

Funny how you edited the ending off of my quote. Why did you do that?

P.S. Asterius does not hit anywhere near as hard as Season 1 Khagan—who is slow on the first charge and can easily be average on the 2nd. Do we really want to compare the benefit Khagan’s +24% mana increase and +63% defense to Asterius’s DD?!

No offense about cropping. Still don’t understand how hit-all of same dark element is :green_apple: to :tangerine:
Would you like me to expand the comparison to other elements?
I don’t think this will be a problem.

No we don’t, agreed. But you should compare the dot. It’s damage that we’re talking about I think.
Khagan’s 4* little brother is the same way. He has big damage, that is equivalent to a 5* stat. But is fragile. Could only focusing on Sir Lancelot’s damage be considered:

So for Khagan who has 120 less def and almost 98 less HP he does +430 damage that gets filtered through enemy defense. Can you help sort that out? I believe that 430 dmg on a 850 defense will come out very close to 88 dot over 2 rounds. Maybe even lower!

The dot will be 176 if the enemy has 1200 def. Khagan big hit won’t. As far as second hit goes. We’re back to comparing events and raids :disappointed:
But I think the damage is not so far away from comparison. While the speed, durability for Aesterius will make up for it.

Even @Ender_BattleSchool was able to see how the newer heroes were retiring his golden oldies.

These stats don’t appear to be slowing down. They are steadily increasing. I can provide more graphics to show these increasing stats if that’s necessary.
The speed certainly isn’t slowing down either!
At least the last Very Slow hero is worthy of being called such.
What happens to the other ones?

A costume…?

1 Like

Apples to Oranges on the Darks that hit all because example hen-pecked the stats that supported a theory instead of taking in the totality of the card. I pointed out that I was using the same flawed logic, that just happened to be he part that was cropped out of my quote (funny how that happened).

Heroes being introduced with a different special that happens to counter others specials does not make them OP. It makes them unique. Are we really going to debate Malosi being OP and/or part of a conspiracy of power inflation?

The Ninja Tower may be arguably the most challenging game within the game. I imagine that the top players probably have access to a vast array of heroes in the game and would have specifically chosen the best heroes suited for the most challenging 50th floor. Certainly if there is power inflation we should see strong evidence of it there?

Let’s look at the usage of the top 10—shall we?

S1 28.00%
S2 10.00%
S3 8.00%
Ninja 6.00%
HOTM 18 6.00%
HOTM 19 22.00%
HOTM 20 6.00%
HOTM 21 0.00%
Challenge 10.00%
Seasonal 4.00%

Well … maybe we need to dig further … certainly there must be evidence of this power inflation:

S1 32.00%
S2 15.00%
S3 10.00%
Ninja 3.00%
HOTM 18 7.00%
HOTM 19 15.00%
HOTM 20 4.00%
HOTM 21 1.00%
Challenge 8.00%
Seasonal 5.00%

Help me sort out where the Power inflation is here?
I am seeing very few late-model HOTMs and only 10% S3 heroes compared to … 32% S1??

When the best of the best can choose any heroes they wish, those who take the top spots choose …

Worth noting that many of the S1 and S2 heroes were 3 and 4 heroes.

1 Like