Frida + Athena stacking- Sum or Multiple?

If maxed out both, Frida gives -54% defence for enemy (against blue) and Athena gives -41%.
What I understood, those stacks? After few additional hits Athena’s speciality will make to -64%.

Does all that mean if they are fired together, you can actually drop enemy’s defence to 0% (against blue ofc)?

Defense down and color specific defense down count as two separate debuffs. Yes they stack, and you will do a heck of a lot of damage if you do. Especially if you can also manage to get an attack up buff on your team.

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Yes, they surely stack, however, you can not simply sum the percentages.
I would reason, it works like this:
Frida: -54%, which means 1-0.54=0.46 of initial defence;
Athena: -41…-64%, which means, 1-(0.41…0.64)=0.59…0.36 of initial defence;
When you stack them, you should get defences down at 0.46x0.59=0.27 to 0.46x0.36=0.17. This would mean 73% to 83% defence reduction.


Just wondering which order is better. Frida first then the defense debuffer? Or the other way round? The result in defense down will be the same, but which order will cause more damage? Don’t have Athena but Grimm and Isarnia.
Any ideas which order would be best for total damage of the two specials?

I use Friday (bigger initial def down) first and then Athena (hits for more damage). Never done the math but seems logical…

Well, I think, this can be calculated, so lets do it.

First, we need to understand how the damage is calculated. For this SolemnWolf has already provided a formula in this thread: Damage Calculation

In short, it should be as follows: Damage ≈ 100 x ( θ x Att / Def ) ^ 1.35

Θ here is a random number between 0.606 and 1.649. To simplify, I will just ignore this random factor by replacing it with 1.

Next, lets assume that our target has a defense value of Def=750.

Athenas attack score without emblems is 737 and she does 305% on target (Att=737x305%=2156.35) and minor damage to nearby enemies.

On her own her average damage on our target should be around 100 x (2156.35 / 750 ) ^ 1.35 = 416. If I am not mistaken, her minor damage should be around 50% of this value = 208.

After Fridas -54% elemental defence debuf Athenas average damage on our target should be around 100 x (2156.35 / (0.46x750) ) ^ 1.35 = 1187

Fridas attack score without emblems is 733 and she does 290% on 3 targets (Att=733x290%=2125.7).

On her own her average damage on our target should be around 100 x (2125.7 / 750 ) ^ 1.35 = 408.

After Athenas initial -41% elemental defence debuf Fridas average damage on our target should be around 100 x (2125.7 / (0.59x750) ) ^ 1.35 = 832.

So, if all we care is the main target, then Frida+Athena should do around 408+1187=1595 and Athena+Frida should do around 416+832=1248 damage. It is not this simple, however – if you do Athena first, then get her buff to -65% with some tiles, then fire Frida, the results should be even much better (416+tiles+1684=2100+). Without the tiles, Frida+Athena may win.

Also note, these values will differ depending on the targets initial defense as well as that random factor in the damage formula which I ignored here.



Highly appreciated. Thanks!

Simpler answer is to always start with Athena first because her defense debuff scales with every instance of damage. Frida’s follow on hit will increment the debuff whereas activating Frida first and then Athena will not increment the debuff. The next time you damage the targets after this combo will therefore be higher with Athena taking the lead. This is more significant if the next damage is not from a blue source.

I would say, it depends on situation. If, lets say, Azlar is about to charge and I just want a quick kill without a risk of setting him off with tiles, my safest bet would be Frida-Athena rather than Athena-Frida.

Minor Damage

Minor damage appears to count as a separate attack using 50% of the attack stat.

This is different from Weak Damage that does half of the damage from 100% of the attack stat.