Forum Negativity, Representative of the whole player base?

It is just people that are vivid to argue in defense on SG, at this point I just skip over those people and read only relevant and useful posts

Fair enough. It was mostly just the phrase “just asking questions” that irked me. You didn’t really use it the way politicians and pundits often do (i.e… to back off when the point they thought they were making gets challenged); that was unfair criticism on my part.

I do still think that the point you were making is mostly wrong (i.e. that anyone should expect some form of long term “return on the investment” into this game when they buy gems/offers/etc., regardless of how much $.) Discussed further below.

Not sure what you mean?

To be clear though, I am admitting here, that I unfairly accused you of a cop-out in the first place (because I’m apparently tirggered by people saying they were “just asking questions”). Just not sure how/why what I said might also be considered one?

Right, so, to get back to the point you were making, and to tie it back to OP’s, I’ll say that I generally don’t think your point is a bad one, but:

  • I’ll stand by my assertion that anyone who puts money into a mobile game should do so with the expectation that there’s a chance it’ll simply be gone tomorrow, for a million different possible reasons, or no reason at all. The T&Cs say so, it’s what we all signed up for, etc., etc.
  • At the same time, SG has to balance that lack of obligation with a game that people want to keep coming back to, despite the lack of obligation. Obviously, one way they can help that happen is by not catering to whales, and keeping power creep minimal. Also obviously, they’ve not chosen to do that!
  • I can certainly understand why anyone (again, regardless of the amount they’ve spent) would prefer that SG slow things down, so the money and time they put in to building their base and deck can stretch longer. I just think there are right ways to complain about this sort of thing, and whiny/dramatic ways, and I think the former is always going to be more likely to be productive, both directly by SG possibly listening, and indirectly by not giving off bad vibes to other players who are also forum users.

And finally, just to be super clear, I don’t personally consider YOU, @pompitous, to be one of the whiny/dramatic ones!

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lol thanks. I actually don’t mind.
@Mr.Spock also called me a drama queen once and gave me a good chuckle. He wasn’t wrong. I do tend to be dramatic :yum:

Money aside…
we have all invested time!
Having passion for something that one has invested in shouldn’t bear negativity.

I agree with you about expectations of value retention.

What are your thoughts @gregschen,
about the Pace that this…value degrades over time?

Do you feel that lucrative portals are maintaining the same slow pace pre-Telly era? Or has the degradation gained momentum…?

Perhaps negativity has some…
linear metrics?

Yeah, I mean, I look at this the same way as I do the money. We put time into it because we enjoy it. If anyone isn’t enjoying it anymore… you know where I’m going with this, haha!

Right, so… I’ll use “power creep” as a shorthand for what we’re talking about here. I think there are two basic perspectives on how it should work, which are at odds with one another:

  • From the perspective of long term players, whether they spend or not: Presumably, anyone who’s a long-term player enjoys the game and wants it to remain vibrant and active for many years. Obviously, a slower power creep would be a way to contribute to that. (I think we’d probably all agree that ZERO power creep would also be bad though, because the game would stagnate, and there’d be no real incentive to keep up with any of the new features, etc., which would get boring.)

  • From the perspective of the developer: What’s the best way to monetize this thing? Do we prefer lots of money soon, and possibly less overall? Do we prefer to maximize total revenue, regardless of time frame? I think most of us would agree that SG has chosen the former, and I also think most of us would agree that they did so too rapidly, at least with respect to maintaining the size of the total player base. There’s no doubt in my mind that many have quit over this issue. I think SG looks at it as a calculated risk, and they’re erring on the side of “more money from whales now, and let’s not worry too much about the uncertain future.” From what I know of their deal with Zynga, this isn’t surprising; they were heavily financially incentivized to do things this way.

My main gripe with them about it is that they’ve tried to downplay it (most notoriously in the recent forum Q&A), when it’s all pretty obvious for anyone who’s been paying attention. But, probably something like 0.01% of the player base has been paying attention, and the other 99.99% are just flipping tiles on their cigarette breaks.

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A couple more comments on power creep and the game meta:

  • When I started playing (Febrary 2018), Guinevere was the dominant tank.

  • Over the course of the next two years, SG put out a few heroes that seemed to be attempts to get away from there being a single dominant tank (Aegir, Kunchen, Ursena, Mitsuko, to name a few), as well as a few “Guin-killers” (Seshat being the most effective, but also Kage… I’m sure there are more, can’t remember right now). They had some success with this. My alliance stuck with Guin and other yellow tanks in our wars, but our opponents definitely started to mix it up over this period of time. This was what I would consider the “golden age” of SG getting the power creep pace “right.”

  • SG was sold to Zynga at the end of 2018, and began acceleration of development. Over the course of the next year, this resulted in several new challenge events, seasonal events, and the beginning of development of future tower events, mythics, etc.

  • Earlier 2020: TELLY!! and the GTV meta. This was the beginning of SG being more obviously money-hungry. Telly was the March 2020 HotM, and was released as a wildly OP tank (to the surprise of most, to be fair; some who were in beta would say it wasn’t a surprise to them, but I think most people didn’t see it coming.). Within two months, every top alliance had switched to green tanks, mostly Telly.

  • Mid-2020: Nerfgate!! Telly remained the dominant tank for a couple more months, but by October/November of 2020, things were already changing. cKad and Frigg had begun to replace Telly in green tank alliances, and we started to see experiments with other color tanks again as well.

  • Late 2020: Also around that time, the new war formats were introduced, and tournaments had recently become a thing, adding a pretty much entirely separate rush meta. Obviously, it’s to SG’s financial benefit to have more than one meta going on at the same time.

  • Early 2021: Eventually, Bera and Freya became more commonly owned, and the current purple tank / minion meta came to be.

  • Mid-2021: There are already signs that the Bera/minion meta is deteriorating, but I don’t know if there’s an obvious new “best” option.

Clearly, there’s been a great deal of effort on SG’s part to accelerate changes to the meta via faster power creep more recently than before they got bought.

/procrastination time is now officially over. See y’all later!

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From my perspective @Razor’s mafia had Joon without costume on the right wing Mar and April 2020. Marjana was there also. Lianna before that.

https://enphero.com/Reports/Empires-and-Puzzles-2020-04-22_Reports.html?ver=3.05

The farther back you go, the more S1 appear.

So… this metric, at that time… gave players exactly 3 years of value! Which also happened to be the entirety of the game’s existence!
this was last year!

A profound statement for any gacha!
One that SG should have been very proud of. And judging by their repeated efforts to restore balance after the worst saturation in the game’s history. Some believed they intended to stay the path.

1 year later…
S1 are devoured by costumes $$
And barring C.Kadilen, costumes are already being threatened.

And today…Event heroes… maybe not rammed down a throat so to speak
But they are unquestionably running amuck and are now wearing costumes of their own!

The QnA was vivid to me. It was heartbreaking. I’ve quoted it a couple times with strong, negative over tones.

It’s purely opinion at this point.
And extraordinarily moot…
I believe balance promotes variety.
And promotes engagement for a massive population not just the whales.

From my perspective, watching the center tank change from Bera to Alfrike war after war is stagnate. I still believe they could have made a lot of money from the despicable odds and unique skills.
But…
That’s all moot now… and I’d rather not be bitter. That’s a seriously tough nut…
It’s hard to let go of this old habit and not feel some form of regret.

Even here in the forum.
So much time…
moot

In case you didn’t notice a TON of aged heros just got boosted… HOTM element links for all and family bonuses are pretty great.

Come again?

My Hel hasn’t changed:

Where’s her link?
No passive.
No boost.
Where is the missing information?

It is still in beta and can be adjusted.

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lol

Thanks @yelnats_24

Maybe negativity regarding the last
imbalance update is putting ripples in the pond after all

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I’m a ray of sunshine devastatingly lethal when at close distances like Mercury, chillingly cold and useless when afar like Uranus and slow multi-billion year burn via radioactive destruction like on Earth now and am representative of the whole player base.

So no to negativity silo.

/endthread

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Not sure what PC is. Puzzle Combat? Since I don’t play it, I did not even know about it, so I did not ask myself :slight_smile: But the reasons can be several. For sure they have a different communication strategy. And if I am not mistaken, the forum exists from before the purchase by Zynga, while Puzzle Combat is rather new. It might have to do with Zynga’s policies and decisions.

I’d add the fact that in the same beta version, they are testing releasing costumes for old HOTM through summoning in the Tavern of Legends portal (and to a lesser degree by order(s) of magnitude, HA10).

Hey @Shunt

:point_up_2:How come you left that pearl out?

@PlayForFun dude…
Any negativity in beta right now?

You need this weapon:

The “who cares” camp, keeps sounding better and better

@Pompitous Beta testers are not really like that you need to pull to get these costumes.
There are some vocal posts about it.

And as I think Tavern portal has the less chance to pull a specic HoTM so you will most likely not get what you want.

The Hero Families and new Elemental Links are welcomed + the new HoTMs too, but the need of Elemental Link nerf questioned by testers…

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My disdain as well…

Free Balance updates for new toys only.

For old stuff you must pay, again…
for the costume.

That’s vicious!

And what about S1?
Will they eventually get a pair of glasses with the fake mustache 🥸
To go over their other costume…?
:roll_eyes:

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I belive that the biggest issue with this game that leads to negativity is simply this, everyone wants a fair shot.

Be it an event, tower, raid, or war, everyone wants a fair match. Really that simple. With there being 500 thousand heroes available now, there are tons of ideas passed around for years that would benefit all and not just one subsection and SG simply refuses to care. People bring up money all the time and true , people who spend do deserve something for their money spent, however these also needed to be circumvented with ways people can earn things with time. Everyone isn’t rich and everyone doesn’t have everyday, but for a real gamer that enjoys a game it should be money/time not money middle finger to time.

There have been thread after thread of how to make fair events for all. The whales for lack of a better word have to deal with each other, but the current set up allows them to completely spit in the face of most gamers in almost every event in the game and I dont know anyone on the planet who likes to be spit in the face of by anyone.

Players are spit it in from horrid summon rates, horrid drops rates, insane board rng, and constant belittlement from pocketbook warriors because there is no metric for skill in all echelons.

The rewards tiers could have been redone thousands of times to make sure everyone had a chance to get decent loot but Nope, middle finger to most of the playerbase.

I have been known to be negative about some things but it’s simply because most of the good players never get a chance to feel good about anything. They cant place high in any event without spending. I could underatand some event targeted for whales and some with everyone in mind but every single event here can be manipulated with money and that’s the whole issue.

If the made events where players levels were capped, troop levels were capped, emblems were not allowed, all kinds of measure that can be easily implemented to give the whole playerbase a fair shot at something good with gameplay, I feel a lot of the negativity would be gone, but as long as the wallet warriors can constantly treat the lower sector of the community like trash because they can’t spend it will never stop.

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Ummmm hold up my friend, claiming whales spit in the face of others is wrong. U can’t label ppl who spend money for THEIR enjoyment pretty much as bullies.

There is no need for segregation and classification of a group of players as victims, bullies, or martyrs.

The negativity is rampant because of that behavior of pitting one against the other. This is where rl starts seeping in. Reality has enough of this…

Happy Gaming

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I’m not the one pitting anyone against anyone. SG is doing that by not having anyway for frp/ctp to finish the top of any event without spending. The spit if the constant no back up from the upper players and comments such as yourself not accepting that the whales are the ones doing these things.

What would SG do if every whale tapped out of the events and spent nothing at all? Name one time in 4 years the whales have stood up behind the ftp community ever?

All of the real negativity start with Jean francois. Im sure you were hear for that and what was the argument there do you remember? All the beta players got to test a hero and it got nerfed after their comments and the community literally went apeshit. That is still one of the largest vent threads to this day.

I will call it what it is, If you want these people to think you are not bullies then show them because all I ever see any of you do is call them names, grab your beer and popcorn, or constantly tell them to suck it up.

If it’s so easy for them to suck up why are you guys spending then?? If it truly doesn’t matter why are we not all FTP? I never said all whales but if you gonna sit here and say that you haven’t seen forum members get perma bans for completely degrading lower level players you are full of it.

You forget I also offered to give them Snickers…

I think at this point we just have to agree to disagree you have your stance and I have mine, my stance has always been don’t let the game rule your life. Find the fun in your alliance find the fun in the people you play with. the problem is everybody wants fairness and they want to compete but in order to do that unfortunately you’re going to have to Pony up.

Yes I was a was a whale. I openly admit it. I have chosen to cut back on my spending. I don’t worry about competing with the top 100 even though my house is a top 100 most of my family in the game are now free to play and or cheap to play that is their choice.

Do I agree with everything that the game has been doing ? absolutely not …but I’m not going to stand there with my pitchforks and say people that spend are evil incarnate and the people that continue to choose to be free to play should have things handed to them, that goes for both in real life and here.

As the OP’ stated, why is there so much negativity the reason is simple everybody needs a villain and everybody needs a hero and unfortunately everyone’s turning on each other and that’s the saddest point of all of it.

As for my :popcorn: and my :beer:… if it wasn’t for those two items I would be more evil so trust me let me enjoy my beer and popcorn it’s the only thing keeping me sane in these forums.

I wish you well, I truly do and I stand behind everyone whether they are free to play or whales on the hunt for Moby ■■■■ :laughing:

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