Flawed damage?

I feel like an attack I received during a raid did a bit too much damage. Here’s the context:

I’m raiding a team that has a fully leveled Sartana with level 16 4* mana troops. Sartana’s attack is 694 (base) +22% (troops) = 846 (confirmed by pop up window when I clicked on her during the match).
Sartana uses her special that deals 452% damage (even if to my best knowledge the percentage should multiply the attack which is not the damage, so total attack 846 * 4.52 = 3823). Sartana has no buffs on her, and afaik specials cannot crit, so this is it on the attack side.

Sartana’s special hits Hansel in my team. Hansel has defense 601 (fully leveled), has level 6 4* mana troops and is under the effect of Magni’s defense buff, so his defense is 601 (base) +12% (troops) +63% (Magni buff) = 673 + 423 (= 1096, confirmed by pop up window too). Hansel is also affected by his own special that grants +74% defense against special attacks, so his defense should be even higher against Sartana’s attack. Hansel has no further effects on him.

Damage done 554 (Hansel did not die, so the damage is not capped by the hero remaining hit points).

Seemed strange to me at first: when I saw Sartana hit Hansel I was very happy, because he was protected by 2 very effective defense buffs so I expected much less damage (how much damage would Hansel receive wasn’t he buffed? 2000?) and that is why I kept note of everything after the hit to post here.

Apart from the feeling that something was wrong I did also some math referring to this post that seems to have disclosed pretty well the damage formula: dmg = 78 * ((att / def) ^ 1.33).

I don’t know if Hansel defense buff stacks with Magni’s, (does it? this is a pretty important bit of information), so depending on how the 2 buffs work together the expected damage can be:

  • both defense buffs work (total def = 1096 * 1.74 = 1907): total dmg = 78 * ((3823 / 1907) ^ 1.33) = 196
  • only hansel buff works (total def = 673 * 1.74 = 1171): total dmg = 78 * ((3823 / 1171) ^ 1.33) = 376
  • only magni buff works: total dmg = 78 * ((3823 / 1096) ^ 1.33) = 410
  • no def buff: total dmg = 78 * ((3823 / 673) ^ 1.33) = 786

All of those numbers (apart from the no buff case which seems a totally reasonable number to me for an unbuffed defender) are pretty far away from 554 so I was wondering what is wrong:

  • how do these 2 def buffs actually work? can they stack? it rather seems they cancel out in this case (is there by any chance a bug affecting these buffs when they are active at the same time?)
  • can specials crit?
  • is the random factor affecting the final damage big enough to account for the gap between the actual and the expected damage?
  • is the formula so wrong? the numbers seem reasonable to me in relation to the buff condition in their corresponding hypothesis
  • anything I haven’t thought of?

My best guess is that there is bug, but I would really appreciate any kind of feedback on this

EDIT: please do not misunderstand this post. I’m not complaining, I won the raid in the end, just wanted to figure out if there’s an actual bug or if I’m missing something. If everything is working right I will use it to my advantage when raiding Hansel, Kadilen or the like

You remembered to consider the 20% bonus to damage AI gets in raids?

2 Likes

Didn’t know of that! In this case the closest number seem 410 (only magni buff works), +20% = 492.
So there was a missing factor I didn’t know, only Magni buff is working and I was a bit unlucky with the random factor?
Is that the whole story?

Should not be the whole story, Hansel and magni buffs should stack…
I suspect this is something to do with buffs stacking, so that they don’t get full effect. There is the +20% (someone said it might be higher, maybe that’s the case?), but that does not fully explain the damage amount.
All in all, seems interesting, at least I can’t figure out any explanation right away.

1 Like

Hey @alcaselzer,
You just have no chance for this time!
After recent exchanges, the principle of calculating damages has been updated. Moreover, you have underestimated the random factor and the defense buffs stack up well but Hansel’s one does not apply to the set, but adds up to the others. We thus obtain:
Att = 694x (1 + 22%) x452% = 3827
Def = 601x (1 + 12% + 63% + 74%) = 1496
:point_right:Minimum damage = 100x (0.606x3827 / 1496) ^ 1.35 = 181
:point_right:Average damage = 100x (3827/1496) ^ 1.35 = 355
:point_right:Maximum damage = 100x (1.649x3827 / 1496) ^ 1.35 = 698

1 Like

@SolemnWolf I saw your updated formula and was planning to redo the calculations with that in mind, but you were faster :slight_smile:
Actually the fact that troops, magni and hansel’s bonus did stack in an additive way rather than a multiplicative one was my best guess to make the formula work, but as you pointed out my main mistake was that I underestimated the random factor (didn’t think damage could be so different from the expected value).
Thanks a lot dude, I really appreciate your work!