2 posts were merged into an existing topic: October 2020 Balance Update - Discussion
So going up a raid defense with Norns on it I took this screenshot shot after Norns launched her special. It does show a status effect on my heroes that specifically states that the affected heroes are defensively weak against two colors instead of one. My question is why would that be if slash damage is not element related? Does it just apply to special attacks? Why would SG bother adding the status effect if it effectively has no effect when Norns is on defense? Seems strange to me 
Weakening enemy tiles is still the better way to go with Norns on defense in any case.
1 Like
Would Athena’s special do more damage now, given her special does more damage to fire, and seemingly is ‘ice’ based?
/Understood Athena is on neither team; just a hypothetical.
1 Like
Well in the case of my team there, Alby would indeed take more damage from ice element than he otherwise would based on the status ailment description. Since green is strong against blue it would theoretically then be weak against blue AND red based on the wording and description. My understanding with special skills though is that they are neutral unless they specifically state they do extra damage against a particular element. Problem is same for slash attacks that have been repeatedly stated to have no basis in element. So, why even have the status effect there that states my heroes are defensively weak against two colors? It’s an inconsistency that I hope to get to the bottom of. Don’t know if that helps at all @Dan7 
@JonahTheBard or @Guvnor sorry to bother you all but is there any way we can get clarification from SG on this? This has been a point of contention with Norns ever since her release and it would be great to get clarification. If her specials element debuff has no effect on defense than why is it showing as an active status ailment on attacking heroes specifically stating that heroes are defensively weak against two colors? Clearly it just can’t be for show eh? If that’s the case then SG needs to eliminate the status ailment description on attackers as it is misleading at the very least. Is it just simply a case of not taking the time to code so that the status ailment description doesn’t show on attackers? If so that’s just lazy 
Or, maybe it’s an oversight? Don’t know and it would be nice if SG could account for it 
3 Likes
They don’t need to remove the status ailment, they need to implement it! Come on SG, figure it out already!
4 Likes
Yeah slash attack would make the hero weak against both red and blue… but I agree making the attackers tiles weak would be the best way to go as it doesn’t state in her special “defensively weak” Just says becomes weak
2 Likes
Most likely? No.
Because it’s still part of the special skill…
Just cause it doesn’t do anything doesn’t mean it’s not active 
For all intents and purposes, Norns on defence does two things:
- deals damage
- cuts mana when she dies
The second part of her effect ONLY affects inherent elemental resistance. And the only thing that affects is tile damage. Not slash attacks, not special skills or the like.
3 Likes
SG really needs to work that out lol. Thanks Guv
Is this not a broken skill? An icon/elemental debuff shield attaches to the offensive hero but does not do anything?
If for some explanation that it is not considered as broken skill, it cannot be denied that there is something wrong with the skill that needs to be fixed right?
2 Likes
How would you accomplish that and not be imba?
No matter what color stack the enemy attacks with:
- Mono red: All red tiles get weakened and all other tiles do 1 point of damage.
- Rainbow: All tiles get weakened?!..
- and everything in between.
Would any of that be cleanse able? I don’t see how with it effecting tiles.
It might make sense if she gives a defense boost which would have a similar effect.
But it might also makes sense that, like Margaret…
Not all heroes should rock both defense and offense
Taking a purple stack against a red team would literally have no effect on tiles as one example. And yes, it’s supposed to hurt nor does the effect last the entire match.
Difference there being that Margaret and her special works on both offense and defense, unlike Norns. So the comparison is flawed. It’s one thing for a hero to tilt offense or defense based on their inherent special skill or stats. It’s another to completely remove an important aspect of a heroes special skill on either.
Who would do that? It would be cool to see her on defense and be nervous. But how…
If someone stacks 3 reds and 2 greens vs a rainbow Telly with Finley wing. Do the 3 reds send weak tiles against Telly. Because that’s -150% damage debuff. Way stronger than anything else by comparison.
And again, can they cleanse that?
I really see a lot of potential for abuse with this direction. A type of element shield on defense could deliver exactly the same result,
but minimize the effect for something less OP.
And be dispellable.
I think the function that might work best is damage reduction, like Gazelle’s. That’s percentage based and could translate over into Norns skill for defense
It can be cleansed as is now, so I don’t see why not?
As it stands now it’s a150% damage buff if you send 3 blue tiles into Telly. Haven’t heard any issues with that so so far? The whole point of having that on defense is it forces players to think about how they want to attack a Norns defense. Just stacking for the tank or flank for the victory would be risky. If someone went mono red for a Telly tank with Norns on defense those red tiles will suffer. But, if it’s a rainbow defense every other hero sustains the exact same damage they would have otherwise. But, maybe one shouldn’t have gone mono red against Telly and Norns. Once again, that’s the risk and the point.
And you never will. Because you don’t see attacks.
If it’s OP on defense you will hear about it.
I agree with you on that point. Difference being however that hearing about a hero being OP and said hero actually being OP are often not one and the same.
1 Like
Only thing they need to do with Norns is make her fast and change dmg to 215% to 3 to make her usefull early or if they keep her average speed, get her effect to do something on defense as well.
1 Like
But Drake Fong and white rabbit are fast with same damage and have other effects on defense…she should be fast anyway…or if not just make the 2nd part actually do something on defense…it’s like king Arthur…he’s average even anchor said he should be fast as he hits 1 target unlike Frida… there’s alot of hero’s that needs adjusting… but with Norns I’d be happy with either slash attack added in on defense or tiles
2 Likes
SG should ditch the skill entirely and make Norns the holy Ursena/Mitsuko…
Her damage, stats, class are already right in line with the ele-riposte archetype. And a reflect/block dark skill would still suit the card’s imagery
1 Like
She really isn’t useless on Def. She’s just really niche on def as she only works well with minion teams. If I’m not wrong, minion attacks can deal super effective damage. She can exploit the weaknesses so that her team’s minions can deal more super effective hits on your team. Together with Freya, they can be devastating on def, and since they’re the same family, you’ll also have to go through a 20% mana cut killing both of them. The drawback is that it’s reliant on minions to work.
1 Like
This month we got Glenda who is far superior to a season 3 hero.
She deals same damage, similar stats, but her cleanse to all and buff dmg is way more than Norns potential to buff dmg does…
I didnt even include hotms unique skills and resistances…
Ofc I got 4 of them instead of any other Valhalla hero so the pain is there