We are fighting in a war against a team significantly bigger than ours.
They started with 30 players
Brand new alliance
Their members went down to 13 after the war setup
When the war started
There were 30 members with teams from 4400
Not the original 30
Some of them joined only 6 hours ago
How is that possible
We are fighting in a war against a team significantly bigger than ours.
They may be a Merc clan.
Basically what I think they did was all opt into war. Then after matchmaking, a heap went out and Merced some titan flags (maybe all are mercs, maybe they had a pass titan).
Then they came back before the war actually began.
No cheating, no bug. Just different.
Did you happen to take screenshots before they left so you can compare names? That would be proof, but I think what you’re seeing is an alliance playing mind games with their defenses. Some alliances put up much smaller raid defenses so their opponents won’t know what to expect. Once the war board opens, you get surprised by their actual defenses.
I personally don’t see the point of it. It’s not like an entire alliance is going to level a bunch of greens to fight those blue tanks But, some enjoy playing mind games…
My team mate Rastan did screen shots
It was really bizarre that they could join after the match making had completed
I’m not sure how they did that. Plus their war score is immensely larger than ours with their new players
Unless your teammate took screenshots immediately after war matching completed, it’s very possible he got screenshots after several left the alliance. I’ve seen alliances where most leave as soon as matching is complete. Not sure what they do (merc’ing titans, helping sister alliances, etc), but most leave.
A couple things to consider:
- The war score will fluctuate as each participating player leaves or arrives. They do not have to be participating in the CURRENT war. The war score is basically calculated as players check and uncheck the box. This means several could have checked their participation box after war matching which would drive up the war score. These players would not be on the field, though.
- As long as the player was present in the alliance and set to participate in wars BEFORE war matching, they can leave the alliance after matching and come back. If they rejoin the alliance before war starts, they will be able to participate in wars. Their stats showing they joined x hours ago is based on the last time they joined the alliance. It doesn’t include any previous time they spent in the alliance, so it looks like they just joined.
What is the difference? Also, are you facing the same amount of opponents as your alliance has on the field?
Yes same amount of participants
Their titan score is 43k less than ours. So that would have an effect i suppose
Titan score doesnt affect war matchmaking.
Also if you aren’t a part of an alliance before matchmaking begins you cant participate in war.
If you are a part of the alliance during matchmaking then you are free to leave and come back for war. So I think the players who were there originally are the same players that came back.
You can make a case that the matchmaking isn’t working as it should but there’s no bug.
How does your war score compare to theirs? That’s what’s used to pair up alliances during war.
I believe my alliance has encountered a case of a war match-making exploit today.
I have been playing about 18 months and I’m pretty familiar with the kind of match-ups that normally come from the match-making algorithm. I don’t get bent out of shape if we face a tougher alliance after a few wins, but what has happened with this match-up seems very shady.
Here’s an overview:
Enemy War Score - 81743
Our War Score - 81615
War Team Defence Strength
Enemy - 28 teams. All in the range of 4400 - 4650 (big teams average would be 4500ish)
Us - 28 teams, much wider spread. 12 members defence teams below 4000. Only one above 4400.
Average is 4021
It’s a much bigger mismatch than what I’ve seen the current version of the algorithm produce previously. I am pretty happy with the match-making since the changes to the algorithm in late 2018 actually.
What seems shady:
After matchmaking completed but before the start of the war, we noticed that the membership of the enemy alliance dropped to about 10 members and then returned to 28. I didn’t notice if there was any membership changes. In theory, from what I’m reading here, I suppose it could be the same members leaving and returning.
Several members of the enemy alliance who are active in the war, have a join date after the end of match-making (i.e. can see they joined “7 hours ago” which was after the match-making was complete.
None of the enemy alliance members show a join date earlier than 2 days ago, which suggests the alliance was either created 2 days ago or had a complete turnover of membership 2 days ago.
In this case it looks like the enemy has been able to either:
a) change membership after match-making completed to bring in stronger players (not meant to be possible, but maybe there’s a way)
b) exploit a weakness in the algorithm to get a softer match-up by creating a new alliance - if there is a exploit along those lines presumably you could keep creating disposable alliances as often as you like
I have some screenshots and video to substantiate this, can post if it will help. I’ve been lurking on the forum in the past and only created an account to be able to report this
Not sure if it’s acceptable to show all the details of the enemy alliance I’m talking about either…?
Sounds like a few other people have seen something like this in the past.
If there is an exploit, I hope it will be fixed. It was quite demoralising for many in our team to see the mismatch and feel like we had been cheated by some dubious maneuvers
@Rastan one of your alliance mates has started another thread about this that you may want to catch up on:
Merge or not, what you’re seeing is not out of the ordinary. I’ve seen many alliances that have players leave after war matching is done. They go merc or go help another friendly alliance with their war setups. Some may just be leaving so their opponents won’t have a clue who they are fighting. As long as they return before war starts they’re good.
As for the days in the alliance, this could be a newly formed alliance. It could also be that they typically leave and roam the universe after war matching. If so, the system only shows how long the player has CURRENTLY been in the alliance. It resets every time they leave.
There has also been much discussion about alliances that fill a war chest then go create a new alliance. Since the war history is tied to the alliance, this resets the history. This would likely give them a more favorable match. While it’s not exactly playing fair, it’s also not against the rules.
Seems to only be happening now we’re bigger
Not sure how or if the developers are interested in fixing this as it certainly isn’t a fun war
Hi, thanks for the reply.
I checked the other thread, yes it’s the same situation - please merge the threads if that makes semse.
I’m afraid we didn’t get any screenshots that show the members who joined so I can’t confirm whether they’re the same people leaving and returning. I only took screenshots after the war started and we were shocked at the line-up of beefy boys we were facing!!!
Given what I’m reading about the rules implemented for wars, it should be impossible for different members to join after the match-making completed. So based on that, let’s assume that everyone who left is the same people who came back.
We still ended up with a mismatch that was far outside anything I’ve experienced as a veteran player, which makes me suspect there is an exploit possible for groups of high-level players creating fresh alliances from scratch and getting a soft match.
Seem plausible? I dunno… I’m speculating but definitely this was a grossly unfair match-up and it was outside anything I have seen the algorithm do in the past year. So I think something is up for sure.
@Rastan unless there is an unknown bug, historically the most plausible answer is ‘They’re the same people’. As you said, we can’t prove it way or another so let’s assume they are’.
From what we know about the matching logic, it is possible to get what appears to be a very lopsided match. Some alliances pour everything into their war defenses but don’t have much depth. These alliances could have the same war score as one that built their depth evenly. This is just a possible scenario.
This is also a possibility. My guess is you wouldn’t see this in the lower levels due to the knowledge level of players and also the gem cost. I’ve seen several posts discussing this possible process and I believe my alliance has run across a few as well.
Something else to consider - has your alliance recently changed the amount of players on your field? Looking back at my alliances past data, I’ve seen a very distinct decrease in wins immediately after a change in the amount of players on the war field. Quite often we get matches like you described.
There’s also a correlation to what group we’re in. My alliance seems to do best in the 26 or 29 player groups. 28 isn’t horrible, but 27 I’d prefer to stay away from
Just some thoughts. Sorry your war isn’t going well… that’s never fun to get those matches
Yeah I considered that they might have strong defence teams with no depth in the roster - technically possible and would result in a lower war score. But seems extremely unlikely based on the scores they are posting against us - they must have depth to keep clearing our defence as they have.
Not sure, haven’t been keeping track of that.
Anyway I’ve seen plenty of mismatches in my time but nothing quite like this. Combine that with the suspicious shenanigans of the other team, I definitely still think something is up.
Is it possible they have a main titan alliance, and disposable war alliances… after filling a war chest they start a new disposable war alliance, but return to main alliance to fight the normal titans? Seems like a lot of work, not really cheating, maybe exploiting…?
There is no exploit here. Once war matchmaking is done, you can freely leave your alliance to go Merc as long as you return before war starts. I do this all the time if my titan is a pass. Also note, that because people do pop in and out to Merc it may seem that many of their alliance members are brand new. I have been with my alliance for close to a year, yet if you check my alliance profile it says that i have only joined 1d ago.
It is not possible for them to change the members of their team once war matchmaking is done because you have been locked in. You can however change your name or more commonly your avatar.
In terms of defences, I run a completely different defence set-up for raid defence vs my war defence. If I run a very high TP defence for Raids I often find that I have hardly any revenges available in my tower when I wake up in the morning. As such I run a defence which will comfortably keep me in Diamond but will entice people to raid me. With war, there is no incentive to put out a weakened defense.
If the war score is equal and you see the big difference in war defence team for sure its the new created alliance. At the beginning of the alliance the titans are so weak that many members just go mercing to not waste the flags. I am the member of such alliance and first 6-7 wars we were OP and we outscored our opponents.
Like @G.O.A.T said. Being a new alliance, their warscore reflects only the real fire power, not as yours. That’s why they are stronger, with similar warscore. You cannot cheat like you said in the first place, because it’s impossible. Only the original players, when the warmatching finished, may participate in war. They cannot be replaced with others. The new comers, if they remain in the alliance when the war starts, will be in spectator mode, it’s no-brainer…
I’ll tell you how this works. There is some huge issues in dinamic matchmaking that includes win rate.
Our crew is top-tier and we fought wars along about a year with only 4 defeats. All defences around 4500+ power.
But we got really exhausted of 14* titans and decided to create new alliance to reset titan score. And it is seems more rewarding to just fill titan chest than killing 14* sometimes releasing ones.
And after we moved to new alliance not only our titan score resets, war score too.
So we met some alliance significally weaker last time. Not a chance for them to win. Their top def is around 4400, but some members have even 3500 power or less. It was some massacre with 3x difference in score. And our warscore is equal.
This is exactly what we were wondering how this happened
Thanks for insider info
Seems a bit dodgy for the losing team as there is no chance fighting such a team
Not much fun on the losing side