F2p/c2p/p2w/casual/competitive

Hello again,
Ftp mostly complains about mats, Ctp complains mostly about matchmaking, Ptp, Ptw complains about heroes odds.
Skills are useless if you can’t level the heroes you have.
Skills are irrelevant when you faces teams at least 600,700 pts over you.(4’s against 5*s maxed+).
Money don’t always gets what you want.
I’m i missing something?
Wolf9
:sunglasses:

If you do your best to help peoples this is a good thing, keep going on :ok_hand:
If I jumped to this “idiotic conclusion” it could be due to what you have wrote.

Going mono isn’t necessary a bad thing even if you give up to many other viable strategies and it’s almost always a better appoach than going rainbow (not on farming 7.4 tough).
Sorry but I’ll not join you alliance and I have no interest on raising my cups.
My x5 1.01 Grimm defense is working so hard to saving me time on raids by keeping me at low cups levels.

Going for the #1 spot isn’t meaningless but it’s achievable by everyone if they would have enough raid flasks and enough luck to not being ganked out of the top 100.

The 30+5 stars discussion is about costumes, if you want I can explain it.
As the game is progressing you can see how heroes are getting better and better stats (that raise team power) and special skills (that raise their effectiveness).

If a F2P would have 30 maxed 5* heroes you could expect him to have, let’s say, maybe 4 premium heroes with only 1 very viable. All of his emblems would be put on them to try to raise their base stats “and stuff”.

His 30 maxed 5* heroes would face better heroes and due to his limited hero pool he wouldn’t have enough ways to turn around a match. If even he would have all the core heroes he could have problems facing Kunchen or Yunan for example, while others that would have Zimkitha or Grazul wouldn’t even break a sweat.

And costumes wouldn’t help in this regard, as they aren’t F2P exclusives and that would still be inferior to the premium ones. Lianna has one of the best costumes and she gains a mana reduction effect wich isn’t bad.

But is this gamechanging? No way.

For this with this game’s direction if F2P want to stay competitive they should avoid getting into the 5* range. If they would get the treasured heroes for titans they could keep them at lv 3.70 while investing emblems on lower tier heroes, shifting their META to 3* and 4* heroes, wich would still be able to complete any game’s content while still be “easily obtainable” with free ways… compared to the 5* ones at least.

And while doing so they would fully benefit from the 3* and 4* costumes without stressing about their 5* costumed heroes not being able to be as powerful as the 5* premium ones.

Except that you can if more likley minded players would avoid ascending 5* heroes to their max tier with the method I wrote here above.

If I would have half of their world energy they would have 98 world energy, but if you are saying that they buys refills like no tomorrow I wouldn’t be able to deny that.

Money does let players catch up, just look at V.I.P. pass, you get gems to expand your rooster or skip chests, you get a second builder to rush buildings, twice as much as their free daily summons to have a better chance at having high level troop feeders, 1 extra emblem and tickets to burn energy when you can’t play.

“Skill surpasses all” is almost comical to hear in a game when almost everything is about RNG. Skill surely matter but not as much as you could think.

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Money let’s players think they can catch up. Yes it allows them to speed up their progress which is what I said orginally. People are getting g to the hard wall at 3400 a lot faster and facing much tougher teams a lot sooner than the players who started this game and in turn we have much more frustrated players feeling that it’s because of heroes they do n ok t have that they are losing and that’s just not true. I help people design battles and explain why to use said heroes on a regular and the you tube me the results of their match and give their though on the team, and vice versa. We love coming up with crazy combos of teams so that no matter where a persons roster is we can show them how tonuse skill defensively, offensively, how to survive bad boards, and how to own good ones.

The mono guys dont talk to me much and vice versa but when we have mono only in house events I’m at an immediate detriment because it’s one style I refuse to learn. I still congratulate the winner of that event and hope with the 10× summons we give away he gets a hero to help his roster grow. Just like everyone else here because it takes a TEAM to get to the top of the game. Answer me this, there are so many very well known and respected FTP in some top alliances here , and there is a never ending graveyard of half empty alliances with little to no attempt at anything. We used to do titan runs to help smaller guys and while there would talk and adress any questions newer players may have. It’s not like I’m basing these thoughts on anything more than the comments from the actual players of the game in their respective categories. I’m not anchors biggest fan because I dont think he grades heroes properly, UCLApack is still may favorite player, I personally hunt down seven days anyth iij ng raids to challenge myself versus this highest teams, I keep track of the top 100 allainces so I can see how difficult certain heroes are becoming with hig bbn amounts of emblems and troops in them to talk with my allaince mates and prepare possible counters. I enjoy the work put into the game and embrace as much if it as I can from the artwork to the ability to take such a small pool of skills.and come up with something different. They have deals from .99 to 99.99 people can find a way if they want to and if they cant they can move on, it’s really that cut and dry.

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I didn’t get your question I should answer at.

Where is this giant list of 30/30 alliances of FTP players with capped 3’s and 4’s that are angry about these things you speak of. Please direct me to one so i can see what they have to say. What level of players in this category has the most empty inactive and nonspeaking players? Why do you believe this is so? What can the players do to change this from being a common problem so that way to many FTP players do not get a good alliance experience early on? What can we do as a community to keep the FTP gamers, who can still complete every single aspect of the game as paying players , but somehow that’s apparantly not the definition of FTP? Everything has been asked of SG has been added more stuff to do, more heroes, more of everything, yet FTP always wants more more more and if ANYTHING comes out for sale their is an immediate uproar. Make me understand why people who have spent thousands of dollars should feel bad if they wanna pay for something to actually DO with the money they have spent?

Seems that you misinterpreted what I wrote but

For this with this game’s direction if F2P want to stay competitive they should avoid getting into the 5* range. If they would get the treasured heroes for titans they could keep them at lv 3.70 while investing emblems on lower tier heroes, shifting their META to 3* and 4* heroes, wich would still be able to complete any game’s content while still be “easily obtainable” with free ways… compared to the 5* ones at least.

doesn’t means that there are said alliances right now but that this is a viable path for F2P to stay competitive.

Because

our matchmaking systems are mainly based on team power.

Alt accounts, new training alliances and rules to not ascend heroes past lv70.
It’s easier if players doesn’t have yet them :wink:

F2P doesn’t want the heroes they own to become subpar of newer ones so asking for more balance patches is what the community should ask, I guess.

They couldn’t care less if “Anything that wouldn’t increase the effectiveness gap” would be put on sales (see loot tickets for example) but sure thing they would rightly say their 2 cents if paying players would get advantages.

This is exactly what would happens if Path of Valor would have been released as his first beta appearence.

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The term effectiveness gap would need to be clarified a bit. You stated in your post that you are matched up my level which is not true for raids but very true for war. These games are always gonna introduce new heroes because that’s the only way to keep the spenders spending. If they stopped making heroes today for one year do you think the FTP players would then catch up to the pay ones?

There’s not really need to explain “effectiveness gap” but…

If you put a emblem on a hero it would perform better than without it.
If you were to use an item that would increase the amount of items you could bring on events you would increase your effectiveness over the ones without it.

Eventually yes, but this approach is nonsensical and it would lead to a premature end of the game. Seems like players tend to confuse new with better or most competitive nowdays.

New heroes being released is ok but the lack of balance between them is disappointing.

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I’m not sure of this lack of balance you speak of. I constantly use more 4 stars on my teams than gives in most events and titans and just cause a hero is strong only.means you need to practice defending against them. I feel no hero should be very fast and we would have more balance throught the game but who am.i to judge. We have two only two heroes in the whole game who are very slow, make that make sense. Just cause a hero has high stats doesn’t mean it doesn’t have weaknesses just like other heroes. People finding easy ways to avoid learning to use heroes is more detrimental to their game experience than anything you buy in the shop or summon gate yet no one ever wants to point at the players lack of try and always wanna point at a player using their wallett. You can buy whatever you want doesnt mean you gonna win if you cant learn to use your heroes.

Having good results with subpar heroes (4* vs 5* heroes) doesn’t denies any lack of balance.
Very fast or very slow even you have the right to voice your opinion about it.

The whole point of the possible lv70 META were to use 4* heroes to complete content while avoiding the 5* brokeness afterall.

For example if there were a speed revamp by adding new special speeds (7, 9, 11, 13, 14 tiles for example) on specials too strong for their actual speed it would be a sort of balance.
The balance I’m speaking about is that every hero should have a proper special speed and a proper special to cover a certain role while avoiding straight up better versions of the same heroes.

Of course heroes have stong and weak points, I don’t know what were you trying to say here.

Not learning never were a hard task and I don’t get the “no one ever wants to point at the players lack of try” part. If someone plays a game or it’s not a 100% casual solo player that just do what he want he would try to “git gud”.

In every competitive game you could see this and in the very E&P’s wars or titans’ fights you can see it.

If there is a team effort of it’s easier to notice palyer’s deficiencies and to instruct them.

This also wouldn’t mean that you couldn’t win more or with less efforts by having stronger heroes.

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The casual solo player should care what heroes thay ha eas they ok only log in to pass time.

A player who wants to learn will find ways to communicate with players to get the knowledge they need to progress. Some are happy to share some wont tell you ■■■■ that’s just people.

Each class of people needs somewhere that they are happy including big spenders. Spenders and FTP players are in totally different spectrums of there lives in most cases and a guy listen ing to a guy who spent five dollars complain for an hour will be a lot faster to be angry with this person if he spent a grand and hasnt said a word.

Pay content for the upper reaches is not gonna effect anything going on in the bottom ones.

Wow… optimistic, aren’t we?

Of course, anyone wants more shinies but the point is that casual players doesn’t give too much weight on anything. They could log in to chat, do their things and all but rarely you would see them at higher levels of plays as most of this endgames daily activities require to have interest and dedication in what they would do.

I wouldn’t say that every casual player would log in every day for example.

I don’t care about real or unexisting anger issues over player’s category.
I think that if something that would increase P2W advantage (let’s say on events) were to be put for sale then the ones to blame wouldn’t be the paying payers but the game’s company.

As it should be but what would bring would be a high tier META and subMETA where players with and without advantages would compete. Not really a healthy META.

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Well said rigs totally understand your view my only question is this. They constantly add new stuff to benefit FTP but anytime they add anything to benefit paying players there is a cry off fowl and that’s just bit fair. If they have all the heroes they are bit gonna be buying the specials anymore haveing a one time payment for something that last two months I dont feel is gamebreaking towards anyone.

Interesting thread. Skimmed all responses… could have stopped with @Rigs response. Covers my perspective completely

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I have some problems understanding your answer to my answer to your post:

We seem to agree that SG made a mistake with alchemy lab because even the ptp dont want to use it.
So it seems to be a waste of energy and money for unwanted content.

Since I am installed myself in low diamond this spring I see a lot of Genevieve tanks early and Kunchen tanks lately together with all the other nice hotm.
I dont care because I either reroll or beat them depending on how well their deense is set up. :smile:
So we agree that it is not the money ( heros ) that brings the win its the skill and of course luck. :smile:

It seems you dont like cup dropers so we would agree there to.

I regurarely meet the high end people when I raid into top 100.

We seem to agree to that SOME complainers ( FTP, CTP and PTP ) seem to feel entitled to get things because others have them and dont seem to want to work for them.

Here is where you go off the path.

If you would write “I dont feel SOME people should feel…” you would not implement that all people feel entitled.
The same goes for your remarks concerning FTP as I tried to show you in my first answer.

So please use your words a little more precicely if you dont want to aggravate a lot of people in this forum which unfortunately invalidates some of the points you try to make.

Best regards

Elayanith

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Well said and as always my intentions are never to offend anyone, unfortunately my job profession can sometimes leak over and I don’t take the proper care of my words as I should so my apologies if anything I said comes of harshly. please take time to go through some of my other posts and understand that my only side is to help gamers of all levels to find there way into whichever echelon they choose to be in and understand what it takes to get to others. Casuals need to be around casuals spenders do better around other spenders.

If the power creep of the game meant that the heroes we get from the TCS could no longer help players complete events and said game material i would totally be on board for that not being fair, but that’s not the case, everything in the game can be done with the core heroes that start in the game so no matter what heroes added there is no content that cant be completed in game with its core heroes.

For a fee you can speed things up and for a fee you can get shinier heroes that let you play the same levels as players who dont spend, but with a little more pizzazz.

Anything that is introduced to this game that has a fee is always shot down and I feel that’s its niotfair to the people who are actually funding the game that they cant have anything offersd to them without ik immediate backlash from the player group. You can play many mmo’s for free, but for a fee you can buy an EXPANSION which lets you do more stuff. If you dont buy it you cant do it, this also is bjt something new so I’m trying to understand why anytime that is added to this game it’s a big problem?? Nothing they are getting is changing any experience for the players not participating. THESE PEOPLE ALREADU HAVE OVER 30 MAXED 5’S, so what is it exactly that these people are gaining?

You have an interesting point of view:

I personally am not very fond of cup dropers ( but thank you for the 5 heros ) and dont fully understand why you do it now that the weekly tourney is around.

Stating the obvious, but is it better than 3-2 ?

Now this I find really starnge.
I understand what you are trying to do here but I think you are wrong.

In all 3 quotes you proposed to take the “easy” way out.
That is really not the way I would recommend because you loose the most important factor in the
game.
The improvement of your skills that gives you the ability to take down teams up to 600 TP stronger than yours on a regular basis, which actually allows you to beat almost anyone.

So yes at the moment the gap is there ( hero power wise ) and it is geting bigger again after it became smaller with the introduction of symols. But right now it can still be overcome with skill. :smile:

I assume we all fight here on this forum that it stays that way!!!

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We seem to start to understand each other better now and that is the way it should be after an interesting exchange of thoughts.

I understand that you love the game and try to help people find the place best suited for them in it.
I try to do the same. :smile:

Here is where we still disagree.

From the serious people only the things that hide “playing content” behind a wall ( fee/huge amount of resources ) are contested.

Examples:

Alchemy lab:
What could have been a great possibility to do something good for the game was wasted with the thing we have now that nobody wants to use because it is not cost effective even for ptp.

Weekly tourney:
Entry fee of 300 gems was a huge mistake in beta which after the feed back SG understood and designed it in a way that the content was acessible to all but money still gives you an advantage.

Path of valor ( under construction )
A vey interesting and partially new approach to rewarding “the grind”. :smile:
First implementation in beta seems to indicate a possibility for a big public relation mess up.
Since the took away RNG for better rwards they seem to want to give out DIFFERENT rewards for grinding by sellin the valor pass which gives of course the better rewards.
This will lead to a huge outcry in this forum and very bad PR for SG.
The valor pass should give MORE of the things all players can get. Then again all content is acessible by all players but money will give you an advantage.

So you see some people, I assume icluding you, despertely try to keep the game in a state where everybody ( who is ready to invest time or/and money ) wants to play so we can enjoy the game a couple of years longer! :smile:

Because this saves me a huge amount of time.

Sometimes yes, other no. I find that against tanks as Aegir going with mono teams has better results over 3-2.

I don’t lose anything as I don’t opt out of war and I still attack in tournaments, so I still face top tier defenses with my heroes. In many war scenarios I attack teams with a team power way over 600, no big deal.

I’m the first seeking self improvement and anyone that would care about browsing my forum’s activity could see me giving advices while also fighting for a more balanced game.

So if you would care to explain to me the quote here below I would appreciate it.

So yes at the moment the gap is there ( hero power wise ) and it is geting bigger again after it became smaller with the introduction of symols. But right now it can still be overcome with skill. :smile:

I assume we all fight here on this forum that it stays that way!!!

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When symbols were introduced the top players started to improve their defense heros with symbols while the"non top" players started to give symbols to their 4* heros.
Since the 4* take a lot less sysmbols to upgrade they caught up powerwise toward the 5* heros.
After a certain time the 4*'s were maxed out and now the 5* which get still more and more symbols start to pull away again.

We soon will see how hard to beat a fully maxed out 5* defense will be! :smile:

Good for you but good for other players with less experience and skill than you ?

Dont get me wrong. I read most of your posts and generally agree. :smile:

We just disagree on the way how to learn to contend against high powered opposition.
Artifically keeping your opposition down by not leveling 5* to the max seems to me the wrong way to go.