Elizabeth Balance Discussion ⚖️

That’s right, it’s the heroes that actually makes the difference not the formation. There are heroes that better suit reverse V and heroes that better suit double lines. But, as long as top heroes are available, formations are not as important.

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The main difference is made by the board, heroes and formations are secondary. It was a video when the war attack ended up just after only one tile move.

Look…Its simple. SG’s definition of balancing has changed. Nerfing heroes does not bring in revenue. What does is introducing new, more powerful heroes that diminish these once OP’d heroes or OP’d hero combos. Now, this brings in the revenue. So, stop wishing and pushing for nerfs, it aint gonna happen. Instead just wait for the new heroes and spend the money SG wants you to and guess what… those other heroes are no longer OP’d.

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I’m playing this game about three years and empires and puzzles are well known for giving an advantage or at least being generous to female characters and what’s more with 5*: Alfrike, Ursena, Killhare, Zulag, Zeline, Khiona, Vivica, Guinevere, Sif, Grazul, Neith, Natalia, Lady Lake, Lady Lock, Freya, Bera, Ariel, Alice, Lady Loki, Mitsuko, Frigg, Mother North, Queen of Hearts, Yang Mai, Red Hood, Gefjon

No need to mention that all female red characters above are better than Elizabeth just don’t have the time to do the comparison.
She is even worsed than Khagan a season1 red male character. Lets compare them. Elizabeth: 1. Deals 175% damage to all enemies (really?), 2. Summons a Spider Fiend for all enemies. The Fiend damages the enemy with 43% attack every turn (you call this a damage? come on), 3. The Spider Fiend absorbs healing and disappears when it has absorbed health equal to 28% of the target’s max health (I’m laughing), 4. The Spider Fiend gives -24% mana generation for its owner for as long as the owner has Spider Fiends. This effect cannot be cleansed (this is probably the only good thing she has).
Now lets see Khagan: 1. Deals 380% damage to the target and nearby enemies (WOW), 2. The caster and nearby allies get +24% mana generation for 5 turns (WOW), 3. The caster and nearby allies get +63% defense for 5 turns (WOW). And we are talking about a season1 character.

I give one point to Elizabeth against Khagan only because he has slow mana and less defence.
And we are talking about Elizabeth a SEASON 4 female red character. Obviously you did something wrong with her. Improve her.

I have been outspoken in how underwhelming she is in defense. However, most of your points are completely off in regards to her on offense - like order of magnitude off. I’ll let Elizabeth owners reply however, it will be more enjoyable for me to sit back and observe. I expect some colourful responses.

Pretty sure you’re joking…or you just are out there on your own with that perspective. You know 28% max health is nearing 500hp, right? That, plus the “mediocre” 175% damage is basically Killhare levels…but no negative effects to your team, bonus fiend hits every turn, and the crazy -24% mana ailment (forever, until the fiends are dead). Yeah, she blows. Please, EVERYONE ascend your Khagan’s over her.

LOL.

She is manageable on defense, but if she fires before you have your healer(s) ready you are in a world of hurt. Pretty tough to come back with permanent mana ailment. Can’t even flip it with Sif.

:thinking::thinking::thinking: I have been playing for more than 2 years. I have both khagan and elizabeth. I use lizzy on my mono red team- ALL THE TIME. I havent used khagan in ages. Khagan doesnt even come into my mono red team… i literally have 4 other 5* heroes that I put on an all red team… and i would rather put in boldtusk, wilbur, falcon, heck even eichbelborg before khagan… ok, ok… maybe khagan before eichbelborg :sweat_smile:. Her 175% hit to all translates to about 280-300 damage (after emblems). Her fiends block healing of about 400-500. Her fiends damage for 40-50 per fiend- every turn. But best of all, her utility in buying time to get more red tiles after firing has been winning raids/wars for me.

She is a decent, not great or OP, hero on defense as there are numerous counters for her. Ex. Bring a mono blue team- 3 (sometimes 4) tiles into her (or Khagan actually) kills her already…

To be fair, i do respect your opinion, and maybe in someones playstyle khagan can be of significant use. But to drive home my point… have you actually ever used Elizabeth? Have you pulled for her?

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I have Costume Khagan and Elizabeth.

Elizabeth at 4x85 and +20.

Also have Hannah.

Hannah is better against double formations.

Elizabeth is great against all formations but if they have healers she is not out of this world OP.

I did use both on a run that very briefly got me to global #1 ie Hannah and Elizabeth.

Khagan gets a run in very fast events only.

Elizabeth is one of the strongest red heroes and she would have been nerfed if she were a HOTM.

Ok boys, put away the forks, I’m not asking about nerfing her but just to buff older heroes :wink:

Different horses for different courses.

Khagan will get you a high finish in the events, Elizabeth will not.

I use my Khagan in my 2nd red when we get green tanks (still happens occasionally) and in the V.Fast formats where he’s a cheat mode with 6 tiles.

I use my Lizzie and she’s ok, never been able to rate her as A+ myself. Faced a lvl 85 Lizzie in the war today, she died real fast like she normally does.

When you a lose a raid or a war hit with Lizzie on she’s usually not the reason you lost. I’ve lost a couple of times where she was the reason but that’s far less of an occurrence to how she is perceived. Often I’ve let her fire and she’s had zero impact on the hit. In that situation other reds would have been more problematic perhaps.

I put her in my war defence because she’s considered the best red in that place but I noticed no real difference to when I put another red in. One shots as regularly on me as they previously did.

But the fiends are an annoying thing that stuck in the mind…rarely are they that game changing though.

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She’s stronger than most fire slow heroes that’s a fact but they need to earn money, right.

At this point asking for nerfing someone old as Elizabeth is just waste of time. If you want stronger heroes then pay for them just like Beth owners did. Balance is not a priority and won’t ever be here.

Give your time a better use, kids.

She is a decent, not great

… Agree. That’s why I suggest that she needs improve.

have you actually ever used Elizabeth? Have you pulled for her?

Yes I have her.

She doesn’t require any improvement. A decent hero is good enough. She is a bit unique and does a solid job. There’s no need to buff her or nerf her. She’s in exactly the right place as she is.

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I agree with this comments although I fear that her mechanics and the fiends will become more common which may become a huge problem if all heroes are not of the same colors…

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In my opinion from your list the following are overall worse than Elizabeth

  • Zulag. Probably the worst 5* tank ever. And where else would you have her if not tank?
  • Zeline (used to be good, but has fallen behind)
  • Khiona (used to be good, but also somewhat dated now)
  • Vivica (now worse than most 4* healers in almost every way)
  • Guin (used to be good, but has fallen behind)
  • Grazul (still decent and usable, but not as good as other blockers such as Vanda, Garnet and Emilio)
  • Natalia (single slow DOT - worse than a sniper, and snipers are pretty poor overall compared to other type of heroes)
  • Alice still (considered good by many, but really just a servicable sniper)
  • Yang Mai (most don’t rate her - I do think she is decent, but probably falls just below Elizabeth level, although the elemental link is great)
  • Red Hood (super dated, super easy to counter, super weak for a 5*)
  • Gefjon (strong for a sniper, but still “just” a sniper)

She needs a buff so badly.

To be fair, I’m currently levelling Khagan, not Elizabeth. The fact that I don’t actually have Elizabeth may have something to do with it.

I came across Elizabeth on wing (probably not her best spot) in the tournament just a half hour ago. The answer to her in Bloody Battle is obviously KILL HER!!! So I did that. With mono green. (I also came across a team with Zulag on right wing. Hooray for auto-fill.)

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She is a red 5* hero from season 4. She should be better than Mitsuko or Queen of Hearts or Lady Loki but she is not. Buff her with at least 200% damage to all enemies and a minion to the caster and nearby allies with 10%hp and 10%attack. And make her fast. Leave the rest of her abilities as it is. Make her better than Telluria. Why holding back? Make the game more enjoyable.

In fairness my Lizzie is on the wing.

Because I forgot to move her…

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