What lvl are you, how many maxed 5*?
You would not skip a team with two Elizabeth’s, Because you are not scared of her activating?
‘if’ both Elizabeth’s activated… You would be dead as a dodo in 4 moves and your healer " simple solution’ as you put it, would not be able to save you…
bring healers, taunters, minion makers. Shes a great hero, not OP
If Vollermork was average and slowed mana, there might be a different view in him as a 3*
Personally, I love the concept of her but she needs to have the mana reduction toned down a ton.
I’m quite a seasoned player, and in my experience Elizabeth is kind of OP.
The thing that gripes me, is that if she fires and you don’t have a healer ready, you’re healer is not going to be ready in time because of the mana slow.
I always figured that Prof Lidenbrock was a perfect counter, some also said that here. But I can say from experience thats not the case. It takes around 3 turns of her healing to get rid of the fiends. During that time your heroes are probably weakened and die to a big hit from Frigg or Odin, since they got 0 healing.
I dont think she’s VASTLY overpowered like Telluria was, but she should absorb slightly less healing. Then she would still be really good but not as annoying as she is now.
I don’t rate Elizabeth at all. she’s good and would like to hav her but with the hero’s I got she’s easy to take out. All you need is Vivica and your golden or someone similar.
If you’re able to get Vivica and or 2 healers off, it doesn’t really matter who you bring. You should win that match
What I’ve in a tight battle, and I bring Garnett and Prof Lindbrock or a different healer, if I have to wait for the heal to get rid of those fiends, I’m already in trouble.
She isn’t Frigg OP but she’s 2nd on the list
That’s where sif gets involved your chances of survival will be much greater. Trust me
Obviously if you got her in witch I do
Where Sif gets involved, there is much higher chance to win any war
No heal and no blue challenge event demonstrated that she is not as OP as people may think.
I played her at tank position and my win rate was just above 65% which is really not impressive at all.
They are many counters to her fiends: taunters, blockers (they block the mana regen debuff), gazelle/caméléon, all healers.
I don’t really fear her when I face her cause she’s average so most of the time I’ll have one of my counter ready before her and if not I’ll save one healer to remove the fiends.
To me, Frigg/odin are much more trouble than her
100% agreed. sif I think is a hero players should be chasing if not.
Everything you sed there is spot on
It’s like you reached into my mind and exported my thoughts into your post…
People have different playstyles and rosters.
I bring both C Mel and C BT and I get both off multiple times about 95% of raids. I don’t win 95% of raids, probably around the 75%-80% mark these days. And my battles are pretty protracted affairs based on my heroes and the teams I face.
Whenever I face Liz I have a heal ready 95% of the time. She is not fast, and I have Grimble to increase mana, and I have 2 healers in different color options as well as (now) Lord Loki who can act as a healer at times, although most of the fights against Liz haven’t included him. C Mel only takes 2 turns to clear her minions so is not a bad secondary option behind C BT.
Everyone’s experience is different based on how they play and their roster. For me she is very low on the threat level, with Frigg, Odin, C Kad, ninjas, Finley all above her. BK/Krampus/Sif can also be situationally deadly but they are also pretty easily countered/dispelled so I wouldn’t put them as overall high threat.
Yes think of other hero specials.
If Frigg fires with lots of greens on and you don’t have a cleanse ready you are likely dead.
If Finley fires and you have a buff and you don’t have a cleanse ready you are likely dead
If Krampus or BK or C Kad or Sif fire and you don’t have a dispel and other enemeies are about to fire then you are likely dead
If Alfrike charges and you don’t have a blocker in place you are likely dead
If Cobalt or Onyx charges to 3rd tier you are likely dead
If Vanda charges and you don’t have a dispel and your heroes are low in health then you are likely dead
I could go on… and on… and on. Elizabeth has a special that is effective when it is cast, BUT
- She is average speed
- Her special is more easily countered than any other hero, as there are good healers readily available in 5s as well as 4s
- It doesn’t take all the heal to counter the fiends, and healers all have secondary effects that still apply - for example Delilah will still have 6% heal left over and her full minions. C Mel will have one round of HOT, 44% defense up and the dispel. So you get more use out of casitng those healer specials than just undoing Elizabeth, so the net effect is positive
- Even if she casts it is not necessarily a death sentence like it could be for heavy damage dealers. You can survive a large number of turns with her fiends in a lot of scenarios and sitll get a win out of it
Twenty happy faces
This is different. Even when I have a healer ready, due to the absorption of the heal, my heroes are still often wounded and dying to hitters.
When Frig fires and I have the heal ready, I totally negate Frigs’ hit unless there were like tons of greens.
With Elizabeth her damage stays due to the heal absorb, leaving your heroes extremely vulnerable to the other hitters. Thus she is way more dangerous to me than Frig is. I just don’t like that there is no counter. The heal is not a counter, it only removes the fiends but her damage mostly stays, so it’s not a solid counter.
Edit: this is considering you have a healer ready. If not it’s even worse. But thats fine, she should punish you if you don’t have the heal ready, like other heroes also punish you. But, she also punishes if you have the counter; the heal, ready. And thats what strokes me wrong.
This is what I disagree with. The fiends only need 27% heal to counter. And her up-front hit is weak, in the ballpark of 200-300 hp. So for example C Mel will remove the fiends in 2 turns of HOT and the last HOT is about 200 points which heals for the majority of the damage she did. Lady Wool heals for 42% I think so she will fully heal the damage after clearing the fiends. Delilah will have 6% left over which doesn’t fully cover the damage done, but then the 13% hp minions more than cover it. Even C Bt’s leftover 10% comes close to removing her damage. So the net is still positive for using the healer you kept ready, and that is exactly what I have found in the many raids I have had against her.
I guess my experience is different then.
Many times did I have my heal ready, removing the fiends but then dying to a Drake because I’m missing that sliver of health.
But it’s fine to disagree, this is just my experience and why I would want the heal absorb toned down just slightly.
Absolutely it is, and in fact sharing different experiences is extremely healthy. We are typically bound by our own experiences and seeing what others see will help us gain perspective.
And as I have said, playstyle and roster factor into these perspectives a lot.
I used to play with Alfrike (3/70), Malicna, Grimble, C BT and C Mel and go up against Bera of Freya tanks/double tanks. This configuration giave me all sorts of healing options that are almost always ready for Elizabeth when she charges. I now run Lord Loki (3/70) instead of Malicna and he gives another potential healing option if required, so even more flexibility in handling her. This team just doesn’t have any issue dealing with Elizabeth. Another team with less healing options would probably struggle more.