šŸ§Ŗ Early Information on the February 2020 HOTM (Jean-FranƧois)

Itā€™s also very hard to compare DoT to direct damage, as you have to make a lot of assumptions to fill in the damage calculation formula, whereas DoT isnā€™t modified ā€” plus you have to decide how you value all sorts of other things, like dispel, Rogues, Monks, ailment immunity, Taunt, Flesh Wound, etc. etc.

So it could certainly be reasonable to use a higher number like 400 or 450.

Thatā€™s kind of in keeping with my earlier point that Iā€™ve come to accept the current 604 as probably just being where theyā€™re heading with heroes these days.

Itā€™s demonstrably stronger than Gravemaker, but thatā€™s probably their intention.

Iā€™d support some amount of nerf, but I donā€™t think itā€™s like an astronomical amount. Weā€™re talking about maybe something like a 25-30% cut in the DoT amount, and probably leaving him alone otherwise.

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400-450 if theyā€™re going to leave the rest of the card intact sounds correct. 450 would still leave him slightly better than Gravy, but there would still be a lot of debate either way. 400 is about the power level Iā€™d like, personally, as Iā€™d very much so like heroes that dominate the meta to not be a thing. If we collectively already do not care for the lack of variety when raiding defenses where an outsized percentage are all running the same hero, releasing a few more heroes on par with that one will make defenses MORE homogenous from top to bottom of of the top 100 alliance defenses, not less. Sure, if balanced perfectly youā€™ll see a mix of Jean and GM in top alliances, but near the top, middle, and bottom of the top 100 doubling the availability of dominant heroes will serve only to extend the monotonous defenses deeper into the playerbase. If not balanced correctly and Jean releases as strong as written, Jean will just replace GM, and the same monotony will still exist except now with an even more dominant red counterpart to contend with the gap will widen even further between the haves and the have nots.

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I agree with your premise, and weā€™re on the same page about the rough number for the DoT ā€” though Iā€™m more skeptical itā€™ll be changed.


One place where Iā€™d disagree a little bit is that the monotony will probably shift slightly, rather than stay the same with a straight swap from GM to JF.

Right now I see a lot of blue tank teams with GM in flank to punish stacking green against the tank. That wonā€™t make as much sense for JF swapping in for GM because of the lack of extra damage against green ā€” itā€™d make more sense to use both GM and JF to bait blues against JFā€™s ice defense while doubly punishing a green stack for being weak and taking extra damage; or perhaps to use both JF and Mitsuko to doubly punish blues while also leaving green as a weak option. Either would leave an attacker with few choices for a stack theyā€™ll be happy with.

Either way, Iā€™d expect to see some new defense configurationsā€¦and then see them repeated over and over, just like now.

I think that eventual monotony is sort of a given for the current business model. Unless they manage to add only new heroes that are all equally desirable for Defense, and thus motivate a lot of variety, weā€™ll always see lots of the same setups from the people who spend enough to get whichever heroes they want.

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Iā€™m hopeful it will be changed now, because if not I can certainly foresee the wails of the masses and calls for his nerf a month or two after release when he is dominating the meta. I advocate for his nerf against my own personal best interest, but for the long-term health and enjoyability of the game. I dont have GM, have more than enough rings, need Frida (who should be in that monthā€™s Atlantis), and donā€™t even have Guin or Zeline to compete for the Wizard emblems. Iā€™m also sitting on a ridiculous stockpile of gems from the deals over the least few months and Iā€™d be more than happy to chase and emblem multiples of him then run roughshod over the poor saps who do not have him, except I am not a self-serving weasel that has any desire to root for the degradation of the meta to ā€œflavor-of-the-month or bust.ā€

The other thing to consider is that it is far easier, fairer, and more palatable to buff heroes that people received and found lacking after the fact than it is to take a hero people spent time and money chasing/leveling/embleming and then reduce their desirability and effectiveness AFTER the investment was made.

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Hello!
Iā€˜m sorry but I donā€˜t understand the burning-damage-calculation. It isnā€˜t fixed to an amount like it is mentioned in heroes description?
I would understand all if there is spoken about a percentage(deals 208% etc.-> damage points rising so dealing too) but in the description of GM and the french musceteer( yes, Alexandre Dumas, old liar, there are not three plus Dā€˜Artagnan)ā€¦a wizard as a musceteeršŸ¤”ā€¦there is just have been wroten a fixed(?) amountā€¦
Maybe Iā€˜m extremly stupidā€¦sorryā€¦

Damage Over Time (DoT) amounts scale with the base attack stat, which is affected by:

  • Talent Grid
  • Troops
  • Unlisted 20% attack bonus for heroes on Defense

This thread explains in detail: Understanding DoT (Damage over Time)

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How DoT works is not clearly explained by the game, but essentially it deals a % of whatever your attack stat was at the START of the match (counting troops and emblems, but not counting things like debuffs applied by enemies that occur during the match). The % damage dealt differs from hero ability to hero ability with some higher and some lower per turn,

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Thanks for your help.
But I have to at first encrease the ā€žnormalā€œ damage and then the increasing with the help of them is shown?
My Azlar has still 360.
Troop +20% in game: 432?
Second time: Sorryā€¦

Yes, Azlarā€™s burn damage will increase based on your Troop.

Hereā€™s a real example:

My Azlar card (notice 360 burn damage):

My Troop:

Azlar with the Troop in a battle (notice 414 burn damage):

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Thank you!
Playing for such a long time and did not know it; donā€˜t noticedā€¦:rage:

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Too much analysis. Appreciate it though for being highly informative. Anyway, we should also consider availability of heroes that can cleanse his burn. Not only just a cleanser, but fast ones. I know zim is one, but she is near impossible to get for f2p and c2p. Heroes that prevent negative effects are the same.

Remember that JF is fast. Even if i bring rigard with average mana and time his special, JF most probably will fire his SS again before rigard gains full mana for the second time.

Now, an option would be to bring two cleansers but would now take up a slot in my raiding team that supposed to be a damage dealer. Thus, any hero that will require 2 cleansers in a team to counter is OP. I was only considering his burn dot but he still has other abilities to deal with.

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The simple approach: If it smells OP then it probably is OP

JF is prima facie OP just purely based on the fact that JF depletes more than half of most heroesā€™ health and it applies to all five heroes. This is just from the firing of one well timed special

There isnā€™t much more to be said.

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image

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I think JF is above the overpower heroes we already know. Most likely, setting your DOT to 480, or extending 608 to 6 turns, would solve the problem. There is still the possibility of changing mana speed, it could continue as he is, if mana speed were average. Changes like this will be necessary to keep the balance between the players.

I sincerely hope the nerf isnā€™t overdone, Iā€™d hate for another hero to be spoiled.

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how finley would work against this guy? jf got the link which would work for finley but jf got the defense against blueā€¦would be nice to see them against each ither

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He attack all the targets, all of the hitted targets would take a reduced damage due to the elemental defense buff and at the end of Finleyā€™s attack they all would gain a defense buff.

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Let me put it this way, if @Red_Sun is calling for a nerf, a nerf is definitely necessary and no further argument need be had on the issue.

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Yup, the only fast cleanser remotely available to C2p players is a costumed Sonia. When I argue for having Jean nerfed and people accuse me of just wanting to maintain the supremacy of my Gravemaker because they simply cannot fathom that someone could possibly value the health of the game over their own self-interest it makes me sad for them and humanity. If released as is Iā€™ll be chasing down AT LEAST one, but likely more, and have the mats and emblems ready for him and his twins. Iā€™m also sitting on multiple Grazuls, Zim, costumed Sonias, multiple maxed/emblemed Rigard with mana troops high enough to reduce him to 9 tiles, and a few other slower cleanses so am better prepared than most people to deal with him, but STILL fear what he will do to the game. In his current state and given my currently available resources he would certainly benefit my roster (which does not have a single GM) significantly more overall than it would harm me, but the harm it would do to the overall meta and community is not worth my short term gain.

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This is absolutely true. But Jean FranƧois and Telluria are far above the other heroes.

@zephyr1 can we just dispense with the arguments and I can make a two polls, one yes/no/maybe should JF be nerfed, and a follow up of what should be adjusted damage/speed/secondary abilities/ multiple