đŸ§Ș Early Information on the February 2020 HOTM (Jean-François)

You can’t really compare Vela vs Frida with percentage because they have different attack stat. But we can compare the actual average damage output.

For example, in the ramming pulverizer trio, Grimm have the highest attack while Gormek the lowest, even though they have 295% damage, the actual output will be far higher for Grimm.

So rather than converting DoT to percentage it is more accurate to convert the percentage to actual average damage and then combine it with DoT.

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Agree, consider there are factors like troop, emblems, offense/defense side, buff 
 That’s why I ask for a rough value only. Imo 200 damage is around 150%-200%, combine with the damage calculation, I give a value 280% (even more), it’s way I translate Vela card.

The same applied to JF. Just another perspective about the hero. Actually I use Proteus+19 a lot in raid, he does 393 damages over 3 turns, to me that is small damage and I don’t rely on DoT to kill any enemy. My view is many players are overrating JF DoT.

No that is incorrect. DoT bypass defense, so you have to use average actual damage instead of percentage.

Anyway, isn’t 150% + 150-200% is 300-350%? Not 280%?

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Hope you will understand what I am saying some day :laughing:.

Btw Vela v2: do 280% damage to all enemy.
JF v3 do 200% damage to all enemy.

Ppl underrate vela v1 although 2 version do quite the same damage. Ppl overrate JF v2 although JF v3 do the same damage :grin:

This is just your assumption without mathematical calculation. Show your math.

JF+20 attack route with level 30 mana troop will have around 448 DoT over 2 turns (offense) or 520 DoT over 2 turns (defense).

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Here is the calculation with Vela/JF as the attacker:

Direct Damage formula taken from:

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And this is Vela/JF as defender:

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You will be surprised that in your math, it’s equal to vela 3: do 335% to all enemy :grin: sound like OP hero?

Your assumptions about emblems and troops make DoT power over direct damage.

I understand it’s impossible to do math converting direct damage and DoT so that I can give a rough estimate only, base on real raid exp.

Thx for the detailed work. I appreciate it!
But from my perspective it only proves that jf in his current form is medicore at best. Same as Vela

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Actually, I have said that:

Anchor grade her as A class hero, if the DoT damage reach its fullest in 2 turn instead of 4, she will be OP. Note that she need 4 turns to reach full damage, it is a long period where enemy can heal/cleanse.

That is why hero with high total DoT with small number of turn like GM/JF is feared.

The higher the talent, DoT havw advantage over direct damage.

This is because in direct damage, increase in attack by emblem can be countered by increase of enemy defense by emblem.

However, in case of DoT, increase in attack by emblem can’t be countered by increase of enemy defense by emblem.

So while survivability against direct damage is calculated by defense/hp, survivability against DoT is only calculated by hp.

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Vela need 4 turns which is easily cleansed while JF only need 2 turns.

So JF have better chance to reach full damage.

If Vela 208 DoT is over 2 turns instead of 4, she will be OP.

Furthermore, Vela only offer extra attack against red for herself while JF not only grant immunity to both defense and elemental defense for all allies but also turn it into defense buff.

So JF is obviously better than Vela.

I also like JF better, although I don’t underestimate Vela. For me she’s fine, but JF has more team benefits.

Just a parenthesis regarding the emblems and DOT. Emblems can increase the defender’s HP, so they also weigh on the overall effectiveness of the DOT. Less than direct damage, measured by percentage, of course, but that’s undeniable.

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Because the percentage go inside the exponent then it’s not linear.

By the way, I think it’s clear for the reader to have better understanding about JF. Max emblems JF can be very good heros but if you don’t plan to put thousands of emblems, think twice. And note that DoT can be counter by cleansing and healing.

Let’s see how JF perform in this form.

This is something to be taken into consideration from the offensive point of view. Unfortunately JF was inserted into a very competitive class, full of excellent heroes.

His stats’ path can make him a very sturdy tank, tough :slight_smile:

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Not percentage of HP though
 So while HP can help against DoT, DoT still get more advantage with implementation of emblem.

Attack increase both direct damage and DoT.

HP decrease the effectiveness of both direct damage and DoT.

Defense only decrease direct damage


Many players also seems to go on def instead of HP


Anyway, the cake near your username
 @Red_Sun Happy Birthday :birthday:

280%^1.35 is 400%


Still, it is far closer than 280 vs 200


Good for those using Ursena Tank. JF can flank her


One of the good thng about wizzard class is it can go full tank or full attack.

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And butt-ton of beta testers all claimed Neith was still very good after her nerf. And they mocked anyone not in beta who suggested the numbers looked wonky.


and we all know how that turned out

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Wait a minute you are using the argument which I’m certain you urself discounted (if not I apologise) against JF V1 that 4 turns is along time and can be cleansed etc. which was the whole argument used to not nerf JF
And robins point is that total damage is the same with vela and JF latest version . Considering you won’t be ignite jf special in 2 turns , at same -point in time they will both have dealt same damage.

Vela needs to be nerfed as she is on same level as JF, and JF is the big bad wolf that needs be nerfed.
or maybe it’s due to fact that vela has so many great contemporary heroes in ice that there was no agenda from GM owners to nerf her

Thank you. I didn’t know a cake appeared. lol

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I don’t know if I was the one who debate you about that but I wasn’t actively advocating for DoT nerf, more for defense buff nerf.

Yes 4 turns is along time and can be cleansed midway, but JF only need 2 turns to deal much damage. That is why the nerf is not actually half of his damage, the effect of the nerf is actually only around 33%.

Having said that, with 4 turns JF, I have to use cleanser as fast as possible but with 2 turns, if my cleanser only ready after it expired, I can save it for the next time JF fire (if my heroes is not in critical state).

If GM deal that 298 DoT over 4 turns, he is not OP.

The important aspect of DoT is more on its damage per turn rather than total. JF damage per turn is not nerfed.

One more thing, Not only Vela need longer turns to equal JF damage but JF also have better buff. His buff will be very usefull as it make the team immune to def/elemental def down.