DoT heroes and Accuracy

Not sure if this topic belongs in this category, but do have question. If DoT heroes’ specials are not “helped” by Wu Kong’s special, why should their specials miss with his buff active? I personally think all DoT heroes’ specials should be be immune to Wu Kong’s accuracy debuff but not immune to enemy debuff, if that makes sense.

It makes partial sence, depending on how you look at it.

1: The DoT comes from a special that is cast by you, onto someone else. So you could argue that its the cast, not the DoT, that is affected by the accuracy debuff.

2: The DoT isnt affected by WuKong, but not mitigated by the targets armor either. So why boost it more?

3: The accuracy debuff could then be extended to apply even to heals, or cleansing, because they arent affected by WuKong either. But THAT particular can of worms, I wont be opening here.

Just my thoughts on it :slight_smile:

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All the things directed towards foes should be affected by accuracy, be it Gambler’s Stance or blind.

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I don’t feel that is much of a gamble if it only applies to a percentage of specials. If you risk accuracy for damage it should apply to everything - heals too.

The only reason I say that is because cleansing heals like rigard, Vivica, and Aeron, can’t remove gamblers stance. If they remove the effect it shouldn’t affect the heal accuracy.

The tactics are the question here…when do you fire which. Not about stacking, but order.

Agree with a larger point about gamble from NitrousOxide and Fledoble - a gamble should be a gamble. In which case, Wu Kong will be rendered unusable in many cases. But let’s say we have settled with WuKong not affecting healing. Now as player, I have choice of not using WuKong with DoT heroes because he might do more harm than good.

The argument is about a flat damage number which not change regardless of Wu Kong.Any tinkering with that will practically break the game. The inaccuracy with tiles is perfectly fine, but why affect something that cannot be “increased”. All other heroes have a chance at missing with WuKong but when they hit, they practically take out an opponent. Just my thoughts.

And thank everyone for the thoughts - very insightful :slight_smile:

Sure, but there are caveats to that too - everything being equal, a Natalya will need to sit on her special while waiting for a Wukong’s special to run out - which is not always feasible.

Possible miss being feasible, then you either change the team or stick with poor choices.

This is about you making decisions. It is not on the devs.

I mean I feel like for a DOT to apply it first has to HIT like Colen’s burning axe has to HIT someone first before it can BURN them thus applying the DOT. So it makes sense that the attack can miss. I think debuffs are the same way right? They have to be HIT to apply the debuff

Please see the long, parallel discussion of this issue here:

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Sure, but then we will need to discuss “gain” for Natalya. We have only discussed loss so far.

Thanks Kerridoc. Didn’t realize there was one.

I have a comment to add. Let me give the disclaimer that I’ve only been playing a few months and have a limited variety of 4*+ heros. My main team has Colen, Zeline and Wu as members and if I have any close choice in firing of specials, always pick Wu last before any tile move. I, incidentally, also have Kiril, whose heal/buff certainly falls within the parameters of the earlier discussion. In the case of the heal/buff accuracy being impacted, I would surely add Kiril to the list of firings before Wu.

Ninja, Wu doesn’t impact Kiril. Both their specials can be stacked.

Any “fix” to this with Wukong + DOT’s would probably apply to Justice / Joon too.

AFAIK Blind is all the same mechanic, and having to rebalance blind again, meh. It’s one of the most strange mechanics in game as it is, I don’t see the benefit of making it more complicated than it already is.

Especially given attackers have the advantage over defense in the current meta on raid anyway in the current meta given equivalently developed teams… making something stronger (i.e. no miss penalty for DOT’s when under Wu) which is going to be skewed towards attacking teams, just makes things more lopsided.

Beg to differ mate. If Wu Kong’s and Joon’s had been the same mechanic, it would have been able to be mitigated by Rigard all the same. Its a line item in coding - call [blind %] charname [character] special [spc name]. Shouldn’t be hard.

As far as attacker having the upper hand in raids etc, that’s a built in mechanic which might take forever to fix. How would you assign priorities, attack order etc to AI. Your argument that making attacks stronger would cause issues may not hold here because a defense team may have similar character configuration (with a bad AI).

Wu’s special with DoT heroes is more a matter of principle idea. IF you say my attack gets stronger and less accurate when A fires, then it is across the board. I concede that increasing DoT hero’s damage will break the game. So we can’t do the 185% damage increase. All that needs to be done is add exception to the mechanic for DoT heroes. Afterall, they did add healing to the exception list ( which is another day’s discussion).

Not what I’m referring to.

I’m talking about how misses are calculated in the game: if you can show me a difference between Wu and Joon et al. I’m happy to re-evaluate my opinion on that one.

Defense is more special dependent, which is why so few run Wu frankly as his buff is mostly around slash damage; furthermore, that means he’s best tanking, with the wrong stats, to say nothing of dispellers in an offensive raid, so in the current meta yes the idea would be a further buff to raid attack.

As for healing, you’re right that is a different discussion, but frankly the idea of turning Justice into far and away the best tank in the game, that’s yet another sticky balancing situation. Unintended consequences with any change to fundamental mechanics in the game.

“I’m talking about how misses are calculated in the game: if you can show me a difference between Wu and Joon et al. I’m happy to re-evaluate my opinion on that one.”

Not the same mechanic mate. “Misses” cannot be generalized the same way loots cannot be generalized. It’s just a probability prefix. I am sure that with a very large data set, you would have missed 32% with Wu and 40% with Joon. What happens with those prefixes is the discussion. Implementation cannot be very hard.

“Defense is more special dependent, which is why so few run Wu frankly as his buff is mostly around slash damage; furthermore, that means he’s best tanking, with the wrong stats, to say nothing of dispellers in an offensive raid, so in the current meta yes the idea would be a further buff to raid attack.”

Agree. But this still doesn’t change anything because the playing field is even. Raid and defense are part of the same larger mechanic. As to how it is skewed in favor of a raiding team is only testament to the fact that humans will play this game better than a machine for the foreseeable future. And how a particular hero is used shouldn’t make the game any poorer but on the contrary.

“As for healing, you’re right that is a different discussion, but frankly the idea of turning Justice into far and away the best tank in the game, that’s yet another sticky balancing situation. Unintended consequences with any change to fundamental mechanics in the game.”

Agree.

I’m talking about implementation in the code.

Maybe I wasn’t clear but there is a misunderstanding here; my fundamental point is this: if you tweak Wukong almost assuredly fixes to Justice et al. have to be made… my evidence? Last time they tweaked the code for Justice et al, it effected a change in Wukong too which was probably unintentional.

So if you change things as a result of Wu, it impacts a wider scope of the game… maybe I was just going for too simplistic of a point on this one but if DOT’s suddenly don’t miss as a result of Wu, they probably don’t as a result of Joon either.

Don’t know why this is in Gameplay and Tactics even, oh wait I can fix that.

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