Does the Class/Talent system make Boss Wolf viable?

General Discussion
1

I pulled Boss Wolf the 2nd time Grimforest came around. Always thought he was a decent tank but never leveled him up because I had better tanks.

Now with hero classes and talent trees in play I find myself wondering if Wolf may become a serious top-tier tank contender at 4-80-20.

First: the thorn minion… from what I have seen on this forum the druid class skill basically at max has a 15% chance after any turn the druid receives any damage to spawn a minion with 15% of the health of the druid.

Second: hero stats… Ignoring troops for now, with a maxed talent tree Boss Wolf could have 1017 defense with 1643 health (defense heavy… and assuming the 3% bonuses for HP and def are applied after all other stat increases) or 962 defense with 1755 health (same 3% defense assumption). That means thorn minions would have 239 to 256 health without factoring in troops. I believe the minions also share the hero defense… so those minions would have really high defense as well.

Third: Mana speed… The druid class has +4% mana speed as the final talent in the tree. I don’t know if a maxed +mana troop’s +15% mana gets added for +19% total mana or applied one after the other for +18.4% mana. On offense that’s the difference between 11 or 11.5 tiles but on defense the difference would be minimal. (not a huge deal as I’m not really considering him for offense)

With all that said, what do you all think about a potential for a maxed out Boss Wolf as a tank? sure the huge defense might mean not much damage is reflected from Boss Wolf himself… but I would think he’d be very very hard to take out, especially if minions spawn and add to his already hefty health pool.

(edited to add health in the second part… I missed the +3% health talent halfway through the talent tree)

2 Likes
2

If you don’t have Alberich or Zim (which are the most obvious choice) pretty much all other druids are not great heroes.
Boss Wolf can definetely be a good tank as a druid and spare you to choose a tank on another class.

Once again, see for yourself your choices in other classes and see if he can suit in there for number of colors, raids and titans.

3

Since you’ve done such a thorough analysis on Boss Wolf, any chance you could compare him to another druid: Horghall?
Of course their specials are quite different but wondering your thoughts.
(oh and sorry I can’t really answer your question… don’t have Boss Wold and haven’t fought him much!)

4

Horghall at max talents would have somewhere between:

836 defense with 1665 health (defense heavy talents)
780 defense with 1777 health (healthy heavy talents)

Horghall would apply -attack to the entire enemy team… I do not consider that to be as worthwhile as Boss Wolf’s +34% mana generation for himself and nearby… reflected damage… and all enemies getting -24% mana generation.

1 Like
5

Oh wow OK… Boss Wolf is tankier and also a more useful special… Sound like you could be on to something heh :slight_smile:

6

Rumor of a Version 20 hero “re-balancing” could mean all hero/class theory-crafting is rendered irrelevant after V20… Unlikely an 5-star could max their talent tree by then…

8

I honestly hope to pull boss wolf in the upcoming Grimforest event this week. I would think Boss wolf with some tough flanks like Hel/Guin/Gravy/etc would make it so only the best boards could take the team out. He is very underrated in my opinion

1 Like
9

Guin is not a tough flank. Hel is a bad choice because same color as the tank.

1 Like
10

I thought the same about Hel but with her mana stop and Boss wolfs mana down I would think that’d be tough for an average or bad board to beat. Obviously a yellow stack with an influx of yellow tiles would easily take them down but that’s the case for any stack really. I dont have Guin but was just saying the right flanks would make boss wolf a lot better

11

Delilah and Onatel are probably best flanks for Boss.

1 Like
12

He’s the best center tank in the game per the SG rankings

13

Heh, nice to see this old thread resurrected. I have done some further analysis/testing of the talents since I first made this thread, I now know that all the +% talents are based off of ONLY the stats the hero has at their max level, it does not count any further stats added by talents. I also know that minion stats are based on the hero stats (including talent stats) and troop bonuses.

I have my Boss Wolf sitting at 3-50 (same power level as a maxed 4-star hero so he isn’t throwing off any war matchmaking), waiting to see if I get Seshat or maybe Kageburado from Atlantis this month.

So maxed Boss Wolf (no-talents) is 566 attack, 826 defense, 1524 health

Assuming DEF > HP > ATK talent prioritization (and picking + healing instead of +attack), Boss Wolf with a maxed talent tree will have 596 attack, 918 defense, 1747 health, +2% healing, and +4% mana generation.

I do not know if the +15% mana from a maxed troop with the +4% mana talent adds up to +19%, or if one is applied and then the other, resulting in +18.4% mana generation, in either case it would take 11 tiles (offensive hits) to max Wolf’s special… making him charge faster than a slow hero without a +mana troop, or the same as a slow hero with a level 17 +mana troop.

If we then take that Boss Wolf with a maxed talent tree, and give him a maxed +mana troop, his stats are 750 attack, 1083 defense, and 1747 health. Minions would spawn with 262 health

If a maxed +crit troop is used his stats become 715 attack, 1147 defense, 1904 health, and minions with 285 health (thought only +4% mana from the talent tree).

I still think a Boss Wolf with maxed tallents will be one of the better tanks, but since the bigger sources of emblems aren’t here yet that probably can’t happen until summer 2020, so I’m holding off on maxing my Boss Wolf until then.

2 Likes
14

Flanks Ursena and Seshat forces the opponent to bring holy and then Ursena makes them useless or suicidal. With Delilah and Vivica on the wings the hole thing seems kinda unbeatable, which hopefully won’t be.

:yum: :wink:

2 Likes
15

!!! and the ONLY atlantis 5* I’ve been able to pull is Mok-Arr… he would be tailor made for such a defense team… shame I don’t also have Ursena…

4 Likes
16

Wow! That is some insane defense. Even with a color stack that wouldn’t go down easy. I would have no problem maxing him if I land him this week. Of course, if I land Seshat then he probably hits the back burner lol

17

Could you add the HP route totals of the following please:

DEF>DEF>ATK talent prioritization w maxed troop (and picking + healing instead of +attack)

Maxed Mana Troop: 750 attack, 1083 defense, and 1747 health. Minions would spawn with 262 health
Maxed Crit Troop: 715 attack, 1147 defense, 1904 health, and minions with 285 health (thought only +4% mana from the talent tree).

VS

HP>DEF>ATK talent prioritization w/ maxed troop (and picking + healing instead of +attack)

Maxed Mana Troop: ?
Maxed Crit Troop: ?

18

Hopefully this is of some use to someone, my boss tier 13 mana 21 troop Screenshot_20191113-141730_Empires

Screenshot_20191113-141747_Empires
Screenshot_20191113-141747_Empires1080×1590 901 KB
Screenshot_20191113-141812_Empires
Screenshot_20191113-141812_Empires1080×1662 325 KB

19

Heh… I have recently maxed my own Boss Wolf, emblemed him up to 9 following the same route, and made him my raid defense tank. He is actually helping my trophy count stay higher than Gravemaker, Aegir, and King Arthur tanks. I haven’t used him on attack, but he does seem to work very well and I look forward to maxing his talents.

Regarding the previously asked question…

Boos Wolf Maxed stats (ATK / DEF / HP): 566 / 826 / 1524
DEF > HP > ATK full talents (with + healing): 596 / 922 / 1749
HP > DEF > ATK full talents (with + healing): 596 / 886 / 1821

Maxed + mana troops give +26% attack, +18% Defense
Maxed + crit troops give +20% attack, +25% defense, and +9% health

DEF > HP path with + mana troop : 750/ 1088 / 1749 (262 minion health)
DEF > HP path with + crit troop : 715/ 1152 / 1906 (285 minion health)
HP > DEF path with + mana troop: 750 / 1045 / 1821 (273 minion health)
HP > DEF path with + crit troop: 715 / 1107 / 1984 (297 minion health)

Personally, since (i think) the minions inherit the hero’s defense, I would focus on highest defense possible, making each attack deal fewer points of data… so I think I will go with the DEF > HP path and eventually work on a +crit purple troop… 1150 defense and 1900 health… that will be a thing of beauty to have, hopefully as a massive delaying tactic which will enable my other heroes to fire their specials and melt face.

3 Likes
20

Do you have a source for this? I’ve seen where others have claimed the same, but I can’t help thinking Wolf is very underwhelming—particularly considering the game’s current tanks. At very slow, he just takes too long to fire to be relevant.

21

Yup! It was a post from SG back in mid-2019 based on raid stats.

1 Like