Do you think there is any skill involved in PVP battles?

When I first started this game I thought there were tactics involved in choosing the right teams to fight with, but the more I have played, Ive learned, it doesnt matter how strong your team is, sometimes the game just wont let you win.

Have they patched it to make it harder or something, or do you think its always been this way, as I would like more tactics to be involved in the game and less RNG ?

What do you think ?

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Personally, I do very good in wars going with 3700-3900 teams vs 4300+ all the time, let’s say on average 4 one-shot kills vs 2 flees. In raid tournaments, I don’t buy continues and I feel boards are even worse, but overall I can say I have same percentage. It is a mix of RNG and skill, I don’t have superheroes and maxed troops, not even close to level 15, but skill will always make difference then hoping for 10 combo cascades. You will always fell boards are mostly unfair because you always want to win, but today emblems make a big difference and 1 tile less at some point in raid can be decisive between win and loss.

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Fairly easy to test.

Cover the top of your screen and make matches at random.

Compare results to when you try to think it through.

This game does have a random element. Someone clever, possibly @gryphonknight, described it as being on a spectrum half way between chess and tossing a coin. So yes, sometimes you won’t get the tiles you really need.

It’s not the game or Devs making any kind of personal attack, it’s the random element of the tiles.

So, try the experiment I’ve described and report back :slightly_smiling_face:

People often get a few bad days and assume causality. If the AI got smarter every time people accused it of doing so, it would be Skynet by now, ruling the world with an army of terminators

And if the boards got worse in line with people’s hunches, the game would be an unplayable mess, rather than the enjoyable pastime of millions.

Read back to 2017 before wars, emblems, season 2 and 3, tournaments, PoV, alliance families, ToL and heaps of other stuff… people have always struggled with occasional runs of bad luck, boards, summons and materials.

@Mr.Spock or @NittanyLionRoar , perhaps you could do a video for your channel on this phenomenon?
Could you test your win rate over 10 raids having picked a random team and playing with the same rules as auto play?

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I was talking more about the luck of the boards mainly, as I know i can beat anyone with my team if im given decent boards.

Like some games i can take really strong teams in, but it just wont give you the colours you need and you just cant get your specials to fire and other times you get a 20 combo and kill them with ease.

I think thats just luck with no skill at all.

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Imho it’s 80% RNG / luck, 15% roster strength and 5% skill. Either one accepts this or finds another game. I’ve accepted it and enjoy it a lot.

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IMHO there is some skill here, but definitely not as much as it could to make it a skill based game.

Once you are at a level where you fight top defenses with well-balanced offenses it’s all about the boards. Like I can start a raid or war attack and just looking at the starting board I can guess with at least 80% probability of success the outcome of the match.

The deeper we are into powercreep (and the emblems were the nail in the coffin basically that only unfolded few months ago) the less moves it takes to decide the match outcome - and the less moves it takes the more board dependent the game is.

Not to mention dozens of specials that do not even have a use in the game, are only fun on paper but in fact put you at disadvantage when you take them.

Funny enough, roster strength also comes from luck :laughing:

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True enough, but I guess that’s too much maths for me to go any deeper. :laughing:

I do think the skill is still involved but maybe not a much as people would like. I don’t see many using a rainbow team in raids @YukimuraSanada still does when iv seen his raid videos.
Teams are much harder these days I wouldnt try rainbow in raids as my 5* well I have 7 and working on 2 now. I keep in lower diamond all the time but I still pick the right team to attack when I do.

I’d say the skill comes in how you work with what you’re given by the luck, or RNG, aspect. There’s definitely skill to how you manipulate the board to set up diamonds etc, but because we can’t see what tiles will come in, we’re limited in terms of how much control we can have here. However, there is still some control.

There are other opportunities for skill and critical thinking with ailments/buffs. For example, say you used Kingston to get a kill shot but also placed that ailment on a sniper. If you check and the ailment has one turn left and the sniper is close to full mana it is smart to feed them tiles so the hit they deliver is weak and enables you to survive.

Little things like that can be easily not seen as opportunities that even exist to some players but can all add small advantages.

And, good idea @Guvnor :ok_hand:t2:

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Yeah I agree on this as watching people using tactics on how they do It @NittanyLionRoar does I have a 1 and 5 chance of x tile making that match and either it works or doesn’t l, I use it alot in matches the odds against yah but can work in your favour if you try it out. :+1:

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I feel it’s 60% about luck and 40% skill. Just a personal opinion.

Well, I believe skill comes into play when the board is not too good, or too bad. Those middle ground boards, combined with the nice team selection (which is partly a skill, too) give a room for creativity. Since I’m going in 3-2 formation, my idea is to bring the most important counters in both colours, so if the board is co-operative to some extent, it usually works well.

I play EP because it’s a comfortable combination of skill and luck for me.

I have no interest in the all-skill games that I would be pathetically awful at. And I’m hopelessly too slow for shooter games :woman_shrugging: But all luck games are boring.

I have days where all the boards seem to be stacked against me. And I have notoriously poor summoning luck. S2 portal hates me. TC20 hates me.

I level what I have, use the roster I have as best I can, and manage to have fun anyway. :upside_down_face:

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Do you ever find those games when you know you just cant win no matter what you do ?

For example i might take 3 lots of reds into battle and have 1 yellow and 1 purple. I will get maybe 1 red tile on the board but get heaps of blue so i get a diamond. I use the diamond to get rid of all the blue and now heaps of greens come with blues and still no reds. By then all their specials have fired nearly and i might match the green diamond to get rid all all the greens and more blues and greens come and I finally get a red match but by then its all over.

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there is no skill. there is a set of guidelines - team build (limited by roster of course) and board work. anyone with half a brain can follow them. the outcome though is largely dependent on luck - the board, the specials, the enemy AI and now the talents.
I see it a lot in raiding - first battle you cant do anything at all and lose miserably, then come back with the same team and win easily.

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It’s fun, no matter if skill is involved 20, 40 or 60 %.

Imo it’s 20% heroes, 30% skill and strategy and 50% RNG and luck.

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Not me.

Advantages / Disadvantages

There are two main advantages/ disadvantages.

Heroes

Without the proper heroes you will always be at a disadvantage.

With the proper heroes you will have an advantage.

Hero potential

Without heroes at maximum costume, and X*+20, with maximum level troops, you will always be at a disadvantage.

With maximum potential heroes you will have an advantage.

Skill

Strategy

Even with all the above ( proper available heroes at maximum potential ) you still need to choose the correct team for attacking a defense. This is where knowledge, and skill first enter the situation.

Tactics

Even with all the above, you still need to choose what shields/ tiles to match, and when to use each special skill. This is where knowledge, and skill, also enter the situation.

RNG

RNG Special / Talents

If your team contains RNG heroes ( Wu Kong, Danzaburo, 5/5 Revive, 5/5 Evade, 5/5 Withstand, etc. ). This is where the majority of RNG enters the situation.

Boards

Without a decent sequence of boards you are at a disadvantage. ( starting board plus first 24 moves, 80% chance for rainbow team with all very fast heroes to 25% chance for mono team with all slow heroes ). This is the next biggest RNG factor.

Single target special skill

Special skills with a single target can have a variability of plus, or minus, 50% to damage ( or more. the exact damage formula currently unknown ). This is where RNG also significantly impacts the situation.

Combo chains

Combo chains ( Combo 3+ ) are the next biggest RNG.

Critical hits

Critical hits are the next biggest RNG.

Normal damage

Normal/ matching/ tile damage has the least amount of RNG since matches require at least 3x shields/ tiles.

Notes

See Also

([Primer] Defense AI Cheats or why computer gets first move, trickle mana & bonus damage and how to exploit/ defend against it for more trophies)

([Guide, Wiki, Tactics] Placement of heroes when attacking - titans, bosses, raids, Jabberwocky, Gato)

([Primer] How come the leaders in the tournament have so many more points than me? or tournament seeding, time zones, and Elo rating deflation)

([Essay] Please remove 1* and 2* Tourneys, I have already said good bye)

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I think there is skill involved, but it would only show in the long run.

The element of luck is quite large; anybody can lose a raid where they brought the best team possible and still fail miserably due to bad tiles. But I think in the long run, a skilled player can win about 5-10% of the raids a mediocre player would have lost.

That being said, there are also those superb boards where you only need to make one match and the raid is already won due to lucky cascades.

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I would really like it if you could raid an online player. You receive a warning, You Are Being Raided. Then you could fight back turn by turn against a real player. Or ignore and let AI defend you. PVP would make the game more interesting.

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hero availibility yes, but you have to choose which one to level up. and i don’t know how is the average player but the ones i know cant make a decision right. i say that with respect and love for my halfbrain friends, haha.

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