[Discussion, Rant?] The lack of Quality of life improvements in 3 years shows Devs do not care about F2P / C2P or multiple Classic heroes or trade but they care only about the latest shiny hero

Ah, that’s cool. :+1:

Never played that one. I see it’s on iOS? My phone’s an Android, so… :man_shrugging:

I actually own over 100 games myself. Mostly physical copies (discs). Can play them offline any time, as long as I have a working PC or console to play them. I miss the days when the games not only came with a box, but also a detailed guidebook inside the box. It was almost like buying a “choose your own adventure” book. I’d get the game, read through the guide with excitement, learn about the controls, the heroes, the monsters, the storyline, etc., then pop the game in and let the adventures begin. Nowadays it’s just “click here to download”, go to such and such website to learn about the game. Never get to tear off that plastic wrapping and hold the game in your hands with that “new game smell”. It’s just not the same.

Digital is cool and all, but I’ve always feared what would happen to all of my “digital storage” in the event of some massive solar flare or something. If everything gets erased, I can never prove what I “owned”. I’ve lost old game accounts for other games after switching email accounts and not being able to remember my original login information. Probably a fairly good chance that my original accounts had been hacked anyway, and now someone else is running around the game with a bunch of already leveled up heroes and gear. Good for them I suppose, those games had already run their course for me anyway. Just as some day, I imagine this game will too. Guess I’ll probably still have my roster as long as it’s linked to my Google Play account, in case I eventually decide to come back… but who knows?

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GameClub should be on Android.

As a quality of life improvement, the Empires tutorial could include basic color stacking and Elo matchmaking. Once you have 5x one color heroes, it could cover advanced color stacking.

If you could buy a physical card, coin, toy to unlock Gravemaker, it could also come with a tutorial on how to use the hero. Would be great for elemental defense debuff, elite attack buff, revive, etc. heroes.

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This is why I played Pokemon for so long when my kids started playing it. “Gotta get 'em all”. I even had an emulator on an old Palm Pilot to run Pokemon Yellow. It is also why I am intent on never downloading Pokemon Go. It would ruin my career.

Not just in games. Majority of business software has switched or is switching to a subscription-based model.

“Hi, customer support? I am having a problem with an apparent bug in your software.”

“I’m sorry to hear that. Can I get your valid subscription number?”

“Umm, it ran out last week.”

“Oh dear, I cannot help you then. Thanks for calling. Bye now.”


this thread started out a little nuts but has just gone plain bonkers. the employees at sg and Zynga work really hard, non-stop. Let them earn an income.

If premium games with no microtransactions were profitable on mobile and could sustain the salaries for entire studios, maybe they would get developed but until then, free to play is a win win for customers and developers. Customers spend as much or little as they choose and developers have a legit income.

When mobile game Jurassic World was first introduced (6 years ago?) you could buy a physical card that you could scan with your phone to use that card in a battle. You couldn’t level up the card though like you could the virtual cards in-game.

I haven’t played that in many, many months now but I think they phased that out eventually.

It always seemed to me that in general people using iOS were more likely to spend on apps than people using Android. Maybe it’s the mindset of the Linux open-source crowd (of which I confess I am one).

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What if it was blockchain hero cards?

I understand that, trust me. I sold off a good chunk of my M:tG collection to buy a new whole-house generator. I was into Magic before the secondary market showed up, people stopped using the ante rule really, really fast when that happened.

Sadly, I can’t find my old main play deck. That will pay for most of my new car when I find it.

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Yep. It’s why I am still using significantly older versions of Office, etc. I don’t need the latest Office 365 subscription, nor do I need to re-write all my custom macros.

I used to be a IT guy in addition to my accounting work. Working at non-profits, we sometimes weren’t on anything remotely current, but we renewed support as needed. What’s truly scary is car manufacturers are trying that crap.


Trading cards, figurines and coins are thoroughly tested. I try to avoid blockchain. It needs years to mature ( see notes ). But it would be fascinating to explore.

Maybe a deluxe version of Gravemaker 5*+20 with a figurine and a second version that is just Gravemaker 5* 4.80 with a blockchain ownership link.


Click for notes



The ante rule worked in play testing because replacing cards just required wait for the next play testing round. Similar to the problem with Beta testers without a lot of HotM.

I lost some valuable alpha edition cards to the ante rule.

We stopped using the ante rule when Arabian Nights and dual lands came out.


Got tired to waiting for something to happen with this game. After playing for 2.5 years I have finally quit and moved on to another much better game than this. Unless something drastically changes in this game I don’t plan on coming back. Over the years the game has become a bore and everything is behind a paywall.

SG has been too busy chasing the money to realize that they are slowly killing this game.

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When you look at PC gaming, 3 years is a long time and games keep improving, at least graphically. Even old games like WOW gets a complete graphical overhaul.
This E&P, when when newly released, looked dated with with it’s 2D looks (yet still consuming a fair amount of battery life). New heroes are still drawn like amateur.
No improvement to gameplay and all new features are masked behind a money grab.

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I forum like release notes for the same reason I tip waiters in the US.

@Petri and @mhalttu are doing an excellent job. SGG does not have to give us release notes or explain alliance war.

But just because I tip my waiter, I do not like some corporation practices ( looking at you ridiculous no compete cause for sandwich shop, and you large corporations taking Small Business grants because of loophole lawmakers put in from your million dollar lobbying)

Click for rant


I am becoming more like @Rigs

Click for rant


I just ate really upset at the grindy direction a unique, and fun, game is determined to continue down.

Because a game can be less grinding and profitable. Other billion dollar games have proved this. SGG could be a force for change. But they have become so jaded after Oddwings.

Where Niantic was incredibly lucky with Google buying them out before they became jaded. Allowing them to continue making decisions based on hope instead of fear.

Click for discussion of Domino's Pizza revitalization

I highly respect @Petri, and @mhalttu, I could never do their jobs. I tend to get into trouble at each new job for trying to fix things. After 10+ years at the new position, I eventually except the status quo.

But no reason to put up with Alchemy lab, or Hero academy, when trying to relax.



They post 5 or 6 words twice a year, and they don’t listen to or address any customer or beta feedback…what are they doing a good job of?

That is seriously messed up. We are the beta for that game. Wow.


That was such a bad rule.

Job duties

Their actual job duties, neither of which is head game designer.


Click for notes

@mhalttu helps with the


Rumor says @mhalttu stopped participating on the forum as much, because of all the @ sent his way ( not @mhalttu 's job but @Petri 's job - see above for more about “Patience of a Saint” @Petri ).

But rumor @mhalttu still contacts players impacted by certain upcoming changes for feedback before and after the change.




I never thought that QoL improvement we miss from this game is because they are not capable to implement them in a good fashion or not enough time to work on it.

It is a choice.

What we see in Puzzle Combat make it that just more clear.


Business Model

Merciless RNG

Merciless RNG ( see notes )

Like emblems, costumes are a huge missed opportunity.

SGG could have added costumes to all summons, gem based and recruit based.

Classic 3* heroes appear in all gem based hero summons ( that is another rant ) so why not costumes.

Optional balance

Costumes could add OPTIONAL hero rebalance.

Costumes already change base stats and could change even mana speed. So costumes could be used to rebalance a hero, post release, without forcing a player to use the rebalanced hero.

Like the original hero, use it without a costume. Like the rebalanced costume, use the costume.

Weak limited time heroes ( looking at you Guardian Owl ) could be fixed by adding one, or more, costumes.

The fast meta could be addressed by having different mana speed for different costumes. Dislike slow heroes, use an average speed costume. Think Thoth-Amun is underpowered at fast mana speed, use the slow mana speed costume that creates reflect purple minions for all allies.

Costumes still have to be leveled independently of the default/ base costume ( that is another rant ) but the permanent buff costumes give can also help with harmful power creep turning it into less harmful power creep.

Adding a shop where players could buy costumers for heroes in their roster would solve the merciless RNG problem, but not the problem with getting the heroes ( that is another rant ).


You are not wrong ( see notes )

But we have had weak 5* HotM even without a recent rebalance/ post release nerf ( 5* HotM costumes could even help with this situation ).

SGG wants harmful power creep to make money ( see notes ), but not runaway harmful power creep.

So new users, and F2P/ C2P users, suffer Elo rating deflation ( see notes )


MMO Mine craft, and Single player Fall out, show that player based mods ( even if just skins ) can crowdsource improvements to the game. These improvements can then be officially incorporated into the official game code.

But from the last three years, it has become apparent that SGG has no intention of adding improvements to the game, only more ways to charge players for micro transactions.

I miss the original Free 2 Play, Pay 2 Play, Pay 2 Win balance of the game meta.


Click for notes

Merciless RNG


(Something a little more certain for your spend - shards?)

SGG nerfs

post release nerfs

([History, quotes] Boldtusk the Ex Demigod or nerfing defense teams or complicated hero interactions)

([History, quotes] Athena the god tier hero or nerfing the damage curve or complicated hero interactions)

Positive/ Negative Power Creep

Elo rating deflation

Catch up mechanics

( https://forum.smallgiantgames.com/search?q=%40Gryphonknight%20catch%20up%20mechanic%20%20)



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