[Discussion, Rant?] The lack of Quality of life improvements in 3 years shows Devs do not care about F2P / C2P or multiple Classic heroes or trade but they care only about the latest shiny hero

What if it was blockchain hero cards?

I understand that, trust me. I sold off a good chunk of my M:tG collection to buy a new whole-house generator. I was into Magic before the secondary market showed up, people stopped using the ante rule really, really fast when that happened.

Sadly, I can’t find my old main play deck. That will pay for most of my new car when I find it.

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Yep. It’s why I am still using significantly older versions of Office, etc. I don’t need the latest Office 365 subscription, nor do I need to re-write all my custom macros.

I used to be a IT guy in addition to my accounting work. Working at non-profits, we sometimes weren’t on anything remotely current, but we renewed support as needed. What’s truly scary is car manufacturers are trying that crap.


Trading cards, figurines and coins are thoroughly tested. I try to avoid blockchain. It needs years to mature ( see notes ). But it would be fascinating to explore.

Maybe a deluxe version of Gravemaker 5*+20 with a figurine and a second version that is just Gravemaker 5* 4.80 with a blockchain ownership link.


Click for notes



The ante rule worked in play testing because replacing cards just required wait for the next play testing round. Similar to the problem with Beta testers without a lot of HotM.

I lost some valuable alpha edition cards to the ante rule.

We stopped using the ante rule when Arabian Nights and dual lands came out.


Got tired to waiting for something to happen with this game. After playing for 2.5 years I have finally quit and moved on to another much better game than this. Unless something drastically changes in this game I don’t plan on coming back. Over the years the game has become a bore and everything is behind a paywall.

SG has been too busy chasing the money to realize that they are slowly killing this game.

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When you look at PC gaming, 3 years is a long time and games keep improving, at least graphically. Even old games like WOW gets a complete graphical overhaul.
This E&P, when when newly released, looked dated with with it’s 2D looks (yet still consuming a fair amount of battery life). New heroes are still drawn like amateur.
No improvement to gameplay and all new features are masked behind a money grab.

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I forum like release notes for the same reason I tip waiters in the US.

@Petri and @mhalttu are doing an excellent job. SGG does not have to give us release notes or explain alliance war.

But just because I tip my waiter, I do not like some corporation practices ( looking at you ridiculous no compete cause for sandwich shop, and you large corporations taking Small Business grants because of loophole lawmakers put in from your million dollar lobbying)

Click for rant


I am becoming more like @Rigs

Click for rant


I just ate really upset at the grindy direction a unique, and fun, game is determined to continue down.

Because a game can be less grinding and profitable. Other billion dollar games have proved this. SGG could be a force for change. But they have become so jaded after Oddwings.

Where Niantic was incredibly lucky with Google buying them out before they became jaded. Allowing them to continue making decisions based on hope instead of fear.

Click for discussion of Domino's Pizza revitalization

I highly respect @Petri, and @mhalttu, I could never do their jobs. I tend to get into trouble at each new job for trying to fix things. After 10+ years at the new position, I eventually except the status quo.

But no reason to put up with Alchemy lab, or Hero academy, when trying to relax.



They post 5 or 6 words twice a year, and they don’t listen to or address any customer or beta feedback…what are they doing a good job of?

That is seriously messed up. We are the beta for that game. Wow.


That was such a bad rule.

Job duties

Their actual job duties, neither of which is head game designer.


Click for notes

@mhalttu helps with the


Rumor says @mhalttu stopped participating on the forum as much, because of all the @ sent his way ( not @mhalttu 's job but @Petri 's job - see above for more about “Patience of a Saint” @Petri ).

But rumor @mhalttu still contacts players impacted by certain upcoming changes for feedback before and after the change.




I never thought that QoL improvement we miss from this game is because they are not capable to implement them in a good fashion or not enough time to work on it.

It is a choice.

What we see in Puzzle Combat make it that just more clear.


Business Model

Merciless RNG

Merciless RNG ( see notes )

Like emblems, costumes are a huge missed opportunity.

SGG could have added costumes to all summons, gem based and recruit based.

Classic 3* heroes appear in all gem based hero summons ( that is another rant ) so why not costumes.

Optional balance

Costumes could add OPTIONAL hero rebalance.

Costumes already change base stats and could change even mana speed. So costumes could be used to rebalance a hero, post release, without forcing a player to use the rebalanced hero.

Like the original hero, use it without a costume. Like the rebalanced costume, use the costume.

Weak limited time heroes ( looking at you Guardian Owl ) could be fixed by adding one, or more, costumes.

The fast meta could be addressed by having different mana speed for different costumes. Dislike slow heroes, use an average speed costume. Think Thoth-Amun is underpowered at fast mana speed, use the slow mana speed costume that creates reflect purple minions for all allies.

Costumes still have to be leveled independently of the default/ base costume ( that is another rant ) but the permanent buff costumes give can also help with harmful power creep turning it into less harmful power creep.

Adding a shop where players could buy costumers for heroes in their roster would solve the merciless RNG problem, but not the problem with getting the heroes ( that is another rant ).


You are not wrong ( see notes )

But we have had weak 5* HotM even without a recent rebalance/ post release nerf ( 5* HotM costumes could even help with this situation ).

SGG wants harmful power creep to make money ( see notes ), but not runaway harmful power creep.

So new users, and F2P/ C2P users, suffer Elo rating deflation ( see notes )


MMO Mine craft, and Single player Fall out, show that player based mods ( even if just skins ) can crowdsource improvements to the game. These improvements can then be officially incorporated into the official game code.

But from the last three years, it has become apparent that SGG has no intention of adding improvements to the game, only more ways to charge players for micro transactions.

I miss the original Free 2 Play, Pay 2 Play, Pay 2 Win balance of the game meta.


Click for notes

Merciless RNG


(Something a little more certain for your spend - shards?)

SGG nerfs

post release nerfs

([History, quotes] Boldtusk the Ex Demigod or nerfing defense teams or complicated hero interactions)

([History, quotes] Athena the god tier hero or nerfing the damage curve or complicated hero interactions)

Positive/ Negative Power Creep

Elo rating deflation

Catch up mechanics

( https://forum.smallgiantgames.com/search?q=%40Gryphonknight%20catch%20up%20mechanic%20%20)



It’s starting…

I wonder when this will hit the tipping point…

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And what has changed in the one year since the OP?

As has been brought up in the past, many players do not continue playing because of the game itself. Many continue playing because of our alliance, player friends, and the community.



Someone just pointed out that only the featured 5* heroes in Seasonal summons get costumes ( per current Beta rumors )

That may be SGG’s plan

So Roc does not get a costume this year

Next year, only Roc and one other 5* Hero will get a costume. Example Roc and Rana

They can then duplicate this method for ALL summons portals

Only featured 5* heroes get a costume, no 3*, no 4* and no non-featured 5* heroes

Based on their current business plan, that would likely generate the most micro transaction revenue

3* / 4*

Until Challenge event v2.0, 3* / 4* heroes have been largely ignored

Partly due to size of SGG. Partly due to Zynga merger. But mostly because of 5* HotM / 4* ascension item business model.

I give the following odds

1:2 limited edition 3* / 4* heroes with costumes are NEVER added to Empires and Puzzles

1:2 limited edition 3* / 4* heroes with costumes are added to Tavern of Legends. 95% chance Classic 3* / 4* hero. 5% chance limited 3* / 4* hero per Tavern summons.

1:2 limited edition 3* / 4* heroes with costumes are added to Project Duplicate ( use for 5* duplicates that does not require Stronghold Lv25 AND insane levels of base resource storage )

1:8 limited edition 3* / 4* heroes with costumes are added to Costume chamber. 95% chance Classic 3* / 4* hero. 5% chance limited 3* / 4* hero per Costume summons.

1:1028 limited edition 3* / 4* heroes with costumes are added to Hero Academy. 95% chance Classic 3* / 4* hero. 5% chance limited 3* / 4* hero per Academy summons.

1:1x 10^1028 limited edition 3* / 4* heroes with costumes are added to Training camps. 95% chance Classic 3* / 4* hero. 5% chance limited 3* / 4* hero per Costume summons.

Click for Rant


We will just have to agree to disagree

(Search results for 'Wu Kong ' - Empires & Puzzles Community Forum)


Trust me. DO.NOT. CLICK. Last chance. Do not do it.

I was disappointed when 1*/ 2* heroes were given classes and then abandoned.

I was disappointed when 1*/ 2* heroes were not given costumes. But not surprised since End game players / Devs dislike 1* / 2* heroes ( looking at you colored recruit training/ Trainer hero update )

I was disappointed when 3* heroes got costumes but not 2* mana troops. But not surprised. Ignoring the 5* HotM/ 4* ascension item business model does not make it go away.

I was not disappointed when Wu Kong did not get a decent costume. The business model was set in stone. I just shrugged and moved on with my life.

I was not disappointed when no 4* costume was based on 5* Titan damage boosters ( Titan Damage Boosters: Miki vs. Tarlak vs. Ranvir vs. Wu Kong vs. Guardian Gazelle). The business model was set in stone. I just shrugged and moved on with my life.

So I am not surprised that 3* / 4* limited heroes are basically ignored by Devs. The business model is set in stone. I just shrug and moved on with my life.

But the single most painful Devs decision was making a yellow 4* HEALER a limited edition hero available once per year.

Tim admits yellow 4* are unbalanced ( see notes ).

Wu Kong stands out not just because they are a titan damage booster, but because most yellow 4* heroes are defensive, weak, or both, in a game were 4* heroes are the core of Free 2 Play and Cheap 2 Player.

While not as painful, the same is true of 3* limited availability healers.

If 3* / 4* limited availability healers get costumes, that will just add further insult to the injury done to Free 2 Play and Cheap 2 Play.

Gilded cage

Lack of Quality of Life improvements actually help freemium business model.

Lack of 3* / 4* hero balancing ( see notes ) actually help freemium business model.

With successful freemium business models built heavily on Fear Of Missing Out, freemium games seem to be moving away from fun, moving away from being a job and moving towards being a gilded cage that tries to beat other freemium games not by being more fun, easier to play, or a great group activity but by being a cage that locks the player’s life up.

A cage that encourages them to draw in their family, and friends, because the cage has become the player’s ONLY "leisure" activity. And thus the only thing they CAN have in common with their social circle. Like an exhausted, distressed swimmer caught in a merciless riptide they do not understand, and dragging down other novice swimmers who try to help, with no professional lifeguard in sight.




Yeah, I agree / the lack of attention to 3s and 4s is mind boggling. Fewer of them are introduced every new event, compared to 5*. The non S1s aren’t available from hero academy etc

This, despite the presence of 3* and 4* tiers in raid tourneys and challenge events. And of course, the fact that many players still rely on 4*s to round out their attack teams…

Ah but of course, 5*s are usually the ones that bring in more of the money (of course).


Live service games

Empires and Puzzles is a Pay 2 Win, live service game

Similar to a championship match for a polo club/ yacht club/ summer hockey league/ ski club it is not meant for all people

In this Pay 2 Win example

Pay 2 Play are club members that did not make the championship

Cheap 2 Play watch in person

Free 2 Play watch it live streamed/ previously recorded

Click for rant

Board games

Unfortunately, the pandemic prevents my friends from playing board games

The previous rise in board games ( all components to play are included, you can modify/ add on to it, and it does not stop working with the latest rented OS software update ) was in part due to the freemium/ micro transaction model of video games


Click for notes

Merciless RNG

(Enough already - #40 by Gryphonknight)

Vampires / older heroes

Player friendly

Fun and helpful versus one size fits all



Customer rights

You are not wrong

But the current state of freemium games is very anti customer

Games BoH, or IT, are both willing to roll back an account to any date before the disputed action

You lose the progress, but keep the account

I even suggested an automatic roll back for Empires ( see notes )

So having a negative gem balance can often be solved by a rollback unless other circumstances call for an immediate ban

Leased software

Because a live service game is a leased software you have zero customer protections

Play live service/ freemium games at your own risk


A Second option

([Suggestion, QoL] Upgrade confirmation screen from Y/N Confirmation to variable X second Confirmation [Customer Service savings, Gem semi lock])

Roll back

([Suggestion] Game save points or Self administered customer service or Reset Button)


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