[Discussion, Rant?] The lack of Quality of life improvements in 3 years shows Devs do not care about F2P / C2P or multiple Classic heroes or trade but they care only about the latest shiny hero

[Gryphonknight]

Subject
[Discussion, Rant?] The lack of Quality of life improvements in 3 years shows Devs do not care about F2P / C2P or multiple Classic heroes or trade but they care only about the latest shiny hero

Edit:

This rant is getting out of control. But from day 1, Empires has been set up for 1x copy of each hero.

Classic heroes

I am disturbed by Devs buffing slow mana speed heroes in Beta only to restore them ( see notes ).

But then it occurred to me that Devs do not want to buff Classic heroes because players often have multiple of Classic heroes since every single summons, and training, produces Classic heroes.

@Rook has a really cool defense using Magni- Kashhrek- Magni. So 2x Magni can be useful.

If it was worth spending 18x rings on 3x Khagan or 18x tonics on Horghall then players would not chase Gravemaker ( year 2020 loot box unit pricing $31,807+ or 2,550,000+ gems ) or Jean-François.

Roster

If you have Gravemaker, Jean-François, Grazul, etc. the current roster system is fine. Chasing new heroes means you only need one of each. Especially with no trade ( but that is another rant ).

If you have 3x Khagan or 3x Horghall then the current system sucks.

Troops

Troops are so expensive to level, having a 4* level 30 crit troop for flank Magni and a 4* level 30 mana troop for a corner Magni is tough.

Instead it encourages having a tough blue hero ( like Aegir ) and a separate high damage hero ( like Vela) with the same 4* troop.

This subtly discourages play styles with 2+ copies of Classic heroes.

Emblems

Emblems do not show a heroes increased crit, increased mana.

Emblems do not show what path you took.

Multiple copies of emblemed heroes are a nightmare to use, unless you take the same emblem path with all of them.

This is not a problem is you only have 1x copy of each hero.

Costumes

Costumes would seem to be a great use for 2+ copies of classic heroes but the current implementation of costumes is targeted at a single base hero with a single costume outfit.

Ancient roster system

Not only does the current 3 year old roster system save Zynga/ SGG money it would cost to improve it, but the current roster system, and current number of roster slots, encourages chasing after new heroes instead of investing in old heroes.

Zynga/ SGG is all about the newest shiny heroes with new updates penalizing multiple copies of a heroes.

Multiple copies

Devs once said they wanted a use for multiple copies of the same hero.

But they do not make any quality of life changes to make using, collecting, or just storing, multiple Classic heroes easy.

But their actions over 3 years( where are you trading?) show they want you to chase the latest hero, not multiple copies of Classic heroes like Hawkmoon, Bane, Rigard, Grimm, Vivica, Lianna, etc.

Notes

Click for notes

Slow mana heroes

Click for slow mana speed discussion

MORE DATTA

@From another discussion

they have all the testing data that they need on slow heroes

and

@zephyr1

• Khagan

• Direct damage increased from 320% to 340%. [this was changed, and then restored]

• Direct damage changed back to original.

• Horghall

• Direct damage increased from 235% to 250%. [this was changed, and then restored]

• Direct damage changed back to original.

I would argue the opposite.

They deliberately changed them back to get MORE data, on the original build versus the latest Telluria + Vela nerf

Thanks for breaking it hero

One of the problems with arguing for change is sometimes your arguments for change can undermine your own case.

Instead our combined feedback here encouraging Devs to buff Classic heroes, especially slow mana speed heroes, we probably convinced Devs to concentrate on nerfing Telluria + Vela and defense teams.

Quality of life changes

Empires still does not have some basic quality of life improvements like telling two blue 4* Grimms apart when 2x or 3x Grimms are common, and good, for F2P/ C2P account’s.

I have had VIP pass since it was introduced, but it will now lapse in 7 days.

More storage

While I just bought more item storage, and hero storage, in Pokémon GO because they have made some amazing quality of life improvements ( looking at you AMAZING today info tab ), adjustments for players stuck at home and out of a job, easier to fight 14* titans ( looking at you remote raid pass ), REDUCING merciless RNG and heroes ( looking at you elite TM s) INCREASING 4* ascension items ( looking at you rare candy), temporary increasing their catch up mechanics ( looking at you timed research ).

It’s not you it’s me. No it’s totally you

I no longer care what made Empire this way, once Gryphonkit, me wife, is finished with the current Path of Valor, I am going to spend a month trying to find a better user experience. If that fails, I am seriously considering buying 100x decks of cards and taking up an old hobby.

Gravemaker

@Gryphonknight

Loot box Unit Pricing for Gravemaker at odd number years

Year	USD	Gems
2020 ( 3 years )	$31,807+	2,550,000+
2022 ( 5 years )	$63,627+	5,100,300+
2024 ( 7 years )	$95,445+	7,650,900+

Loot box Unit Pricing for ??? hero
$17,226+ USD ( 1,380,600 gems )

FIN

[FraVit93]

You are so right… like, in every aspect.

Hopefully the Hero Academy will address to the Troops problems, making them finally trainable to let players gather their troop’s fodders.

Old heroes should really need a buff/rework but devs choice were to make a premium version of them and out them behind a summon’s gate and with their move they killed altogether every single core heroes’ rework chance. The farther they feel comfortable to buff are a mere damage% increase instead of following the Aegir/G. Kong route.

They could put a costume’s drop chance into the Hero Academy but this wouldn’t solve the issue of a balance patch solving the power creep of stats and the improved effects locked behind a paywall.

If they don’t intend on making them viable they could at least make so that a second copy of a core hero would cost 0 ascension materials to ascend and 0 rooster spece o keep but meh… this would be too F2P friendly for their business model.

[sleepyhead]

@Gryphonknight

Ancient roster system

Not only does the current 3 year old roster system save Zynga/ SGG money it would cost to improve it, but the current roster system, and current number of roster slots, encourages chasing after new heroes instead of investing in old heroes.

Zynga/ SGG is all about the newest shiny heroes with new updates penalizing multiple copies of a heroes.

Multiple copies

Devs once said they wanted a use for multiple copies of the same hero.

But they do not make any quality of life changes to make using, collecting, or just storing, multiple Classic heroes easy.

But their actions over 3 years( where are you trading?) show they want you to chase the latest hero, not multiple copies of Classic heroes like Hawkmoon, Bane, Rigard, Grimm, Vivica, Lianna, etc.

This is definitely a real struggle for me, as an F2P player.

1. I’ve already bought all the roster slots I can for the 50-gem cost. Paying 100 gems for 5 roster slots is not something I’m willing to do yet, when I save gems up to do 10-pull summons or for the occasional raid tournament continue or to speed up a chest, for example. And without gems from VIP…

2. To participate in all game content (Wars, 3 Tiers of Challenge Events, 3* and 4* Raid Tourneys, upcoming Tavern of Legends) requires a deep bench of 3 rarities. This is compounded by the need to color-stack (running 6 rainbow teams in war means 6 good heroes per color; but running 3/2 or mono increases the number of viable heroes per color needed); and by the differing needs in challenge events (speed is key) vs. raid tournaments (and you have 3 formats… and as noted so well by OP, defensive heroes vs. offensive heroes)

I still celebrate every time I get a unique new hero, or a Duplicate of a key one… but I can’t keep duplicates of all of them. 6x Rigards for war? Sorry, I simply don’t have the space…

[Wondermoose]

They’re going to have continued game balance issues because of the decision to not loosen the ability to acquire and level heroes to allow for counters to the new heroes. Not improving older characters further with costumes isnt helping newer players either.

Telluria with Vela (not trying to start a new rant but merely point out why I think that became a balance issue) is an issue in large part because there is no way as f2p or c2p to quickly build effective counter teams (maybe 1 per c2p,/f2p team, but in war, and we track war, having only one counter team is an issue) when what you get out of camps/summons and when you get mats for leveling is random and low percentage, which can take months. If I could level multiple fast 5* snipers quickly, choose what I get out of a shop, and not feel like I have to make hard mat choices about it, this would be less frustrating.

I thought with emblems starting over a year ago that maybe they were going to start a subtle shift to gear and stat improving items being the paywall bottleneck with a loosening of mats and hero acquisition accompanying it to help c2p/f2p rosters, but that hasn’t happened. Looking at what’s coming, I think that there are going to be further balance issues within the game and you may lose some c2p or f2p over it (or have more situations like the current one where they have to rebalance heroes because counters aren’t readily available).

[SuuriKoira]

@Gryphonknight

Classic heroes

I don’t see why do you stress on classic heroes. It is a general issue of this game: hero duplicates. Most of 5* and some 4* are too hard to get to use them as feeders but too expensive to keep unlevelled. Like you can have 5 Wilburs or I can recall a person on the forum who got 4 Tellurias. I doubt they’ll be maxed all.

This game lack a mechanism to mitigate unpredictable RNG. This has been discussed for years and variety of features like trading, exchange of heroes in alliance, ability to train a hero into something else or into a costume etc have been proposed.

[Papca]

I do agree with you. We need better care about quality of our lives.

[Rook]

@Gryphonknight, just to have the record be accurate: I still use Magni ____ Magni at times, but since I stripped my Kashhrek of a few Emblems, I am no longer using him as a tank. (He was far more fun at nearly maxed Emblems )

[TGW]

[Rook]

I was looking at their bid prices, going “five bucks for a Gravemaker?!”

[Mothra]

But isn’t that true with anything?

I remember when cars didn’t drive themselves and were powered by only gasoline and the only display on the dashboard was the heating/cooling switch, clock, AM/FM Radio, and cassette player (which didn’t come factory installed).

I also remember when houses didn’t talk to you or lock themselves or have cameras hidden in a doorbell.

I also remember when we couldn’t carry phones wherever. They were attached to the wall with a rotary dial and a 3 ft cord. So when you had to tell someone you were on the phone, you were literally ON THE PHONE.

I feel like there’s always a chase for the latest and greatest no matter what it is.

Who knows? In a few years that Lianna-Richard-Elena-Vivica-Sartana Rainbow might be considered as retro as Magnavox Odyssey.

[TGW]

@Rook

I was looking at their bid prices, going “five bucks for a Gravemaker?!”

Gotta remember your Venn diagrams.

[TGW]

@Mothra

But isn’t that true with anything?

I remember when cars didn’t drive themselves and were powered by only gasoline and the only display on the dashboard was the heating/cooling switch, clock, AM/FM Radio, and cassette player (which didn’t come factory installed).

I also remember when houses didn’t talk to you or lock themselves or have cameras hidden in a doorbell.

I also remember when we couldn’t carry phones wherever. They were attached to the wall with a rotary dial and a 3 ft cord. So when you had to tell someone you were on the phone, you were literally ON THE PHONE.

Those are what I refer to as “the good old days”.

@Mothra

Who knows? In a few years that Lianna-Richard-Elena-Vivica-Sartana Rainbow might be considered as retro as Magnavox Odyssey.

Wow. And I thought I was old school with my Intellivision. And the optional add-on Intellivoice module for super duper ultra realistic gaming.

Intellivision Intellivoice - It Talks!

“Bee Seventeen bomberrrrrrrr”

[Wondermoose]

That moment in Tron Deadly Discs where you realize that you can kill the Recognizers if you have good aim…

[TGW]

Ohhh I almost forgot about that one.

It’s ridiculous how much fun I had with those games back then. I mean, I could play a silly game like Snafu, Frog Bog, or AD&D for hours without getting the slightest bit bored.

Now when I play E&P, I basically have about enough attention span to last a 90 second titan hit. Anything longer than that and it’s autoplay all the way.

[yelnats_24]

Might as well add they don’t care about balancing old HotM who will no longer be featured in Atlantis… Well, they don’t generate money anymore.

[DotCom]

@Gryphonknight

Classic heroes

I am disturbed by Devs buffing slow mana speed heroes in Beta only to restore them ( see notes ).

I understand all the balancing drama behind new heroes, but this… This let me speechless.
I actually smiled when first saw good (?) old cards slightly buffed. And then things like this happen.

[Dan7]

@DotCom

I understand all the balancing drama behind new heroes, but this… This let me speechless.
I actually smiled when first saw good (?) old cards slightly buffed. And then things like this happen.

I wonder what the feedback in beta was, with regards to the proposed changes. Perhaps something in testing made it less than ideal?

[CoreyOfTheIsland]

@Gryphonknight dude this game has had a ton of improvements over the past 3 years, a ton of new content, new features, and new gameplay experiences geared towards letting newer users and budget players feel more competitive and involved.

Some examples:

3 and 4 raid tournaments with abundant access to fun 3 and 4* heroes** Getting awesome 3 and 4* heroes with all sorts of buffs, debuffs, dots, and mana control has never been easier since atlantis rising, season 3, costumes and the addition of even more event challenge heroes. Just getting those heroes would be one thing but sg introduces raid tournaments and challenge event modes only for using these heroes. This is a hugely awesome choice by sg to service budget players.

**easy and hard mode difficulty levels for season 2 and season 3 ** This is also a big change from season 1. When this game launched, progressing deep into season 1 wasn’t easy, not at all, not like it is with the modern rosters where you can autoplay the entire saga map. Season 2 and 3? These maps both include easy difficulty levels for both newer users and budget users who havent fully stocked up a deep roster to complete all the levels on difficulty setting. How nice is it to not be simply gated from the content by a lack of heroes?

Path of Valor and VIP yes the amount of summoning currency these two value purchases offer wont gaurantee you anything, but they’re uber cheap. The ROI as a user compared to simply buying gems is massive.

Quests with the new summon portals to give you free summons Both costumes and now tavern give you free currency to summon with. SG doesnt simply add summoning portals and allow only paying users access, by letting you complete missions/quests for the currency, you get a free shot at the summons.

Yall need to stop being so hostile to sg. This is an awesome game with a massive active userbase. Enjoy it.

[SuuriKoira]

@Mothra

I feel like there’s always a chase for the latest and greatest no matter what it is.

Well, this is understandable, when we talk about different generations of something. Like, tape recorder vs mp3 player. But within one game we can expect possibility of upgrade. Say, you could replace a video card in your computer or even CPU to improve performance of a computer that used to be top 5 years ago.

[yelnats_24]

@CoreyOfTheIsland

improvements over the past 3 years, a ton of new content, new features, and new gameplay experiences

They are not “quality of life” improvement, are they?