[Discussion] Gacha, Pseudo Gambling, Pity timers, Shops and ethics or Ethical Profits?

The one about boards. That’s the problem when you reply to the post directly above, the reply-to link is lost.

I relate to what you said. Most of us tend to have destructive habits or compulsive behaviours that we’d rather do without but can’t. It may be tied to a need for something familiar to fall back on in stressful times (which in modern-day life seems to be all the time). Councillors encourage substituting healthy hobbies but that seems to rarely work out. Fortunately for me I have my guitar playing as one of my “compulsive behavours”. It helps keep the others a bit in check.

My father smoked his whole life. He would always say he could quit any time he wanted, he just didn’t want to. Then when he finally said “I quit”, maybe because cigarettes just went over $2 a pack (yes, a LONG time ago), it would last a day or two and he’d say “There, see? Anytime I want.” – usually with the shakes and an extremely short temper – and go right back to smoking. Ultimately it did kill him, and is probably a big reason why I never started. But both my sisters did.

And no, outlawing these behaviours only makes them more exciting and harmful. As a society we are only just legalizing weed. Often the black market elements are worse than the dangers inherent in the activity.

But yes, preying on and profiting from these compulsive activities is unethical imho, but better legalized and regulated than illegal and unregulated.

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Okay, yeah, we’re on the same page then.

When it comes to the boards? I mean, I’ve been just about every day for almost 2 years now. I’ve seen every kind of board you can think of. Do they sometimes feel like they’re rigged against you? Absolutely! Some days I feel like the game is just trying to ■■■■ me off on purpose. But other days it’s the complete opposite… I revenge raid someone 500 TP higher than me with a Telly and Vela on their team, thinking “hah! this is going to be a spectacular loss! but I don’t care, because I’m only risking 3 cups if I lose”… and then lo and behold, holy freaking crap on a cracker, I get an early 15+ tile cascade combo and pocket an unexpectedly easy 57 trophies. Boards are just boards, man. Sometimes they suck. Sometimes they don’t. Mostly seem to even out in the long run as far as I can tell.

As for the self destructive behaviors (sorry… behaviours)… I actually quit drinking completely for about 7 years. And then I quit smoking for about 3 years. And then I slowly proceeded to start going completely insane. :laughing:

I’m not sure what your culture is like in Canada. Here in the U.S.? While yes, tobacco use has fallen out of favor for the vast majority, alcohol use is still very much in vogue. And weed is also quickly gaining more traction towards eventual full legalization, I believe. Rightfully so; it’s ridiculous that so many people have been imprisoned over something so trivial, IMO.

And as for gambling? Casinos were illegal in my state when I moved here. That didn’t actually stop anyone from gambling… they’d just do it “underground”, or drive to a nearby state where it was legal. So when they put it on the ballot to legalize gambling in my state? I voted in favor. It failed the first time, because people were concerned that it was going to bring crime and feed into peoples’ habits and all of that… meanwhile I watched as millions of dollars generated in my state left the state to pay taxes in other states, while our own roads and schools etc. fell into disrepair.

“Come on guys, this is stupid. Let’s not pretend like nobody in our state gambles. The last time I went to an out of state casino? 90% of the cars in the parking lot were from our state. There’s a reason they built their casinos right on the state border.”

The casino thing came up on the ballot again. I voted in favor again. Second time was the charm; it passed. I now have a full blown casino about 10 minutes down the road from me. Pretty neat place actually - clean, well regulated, friendly staff, excellent food.

I only personally go there about once a year, if that. Because my girlfriend likes the slot machines. I like the burgers in their 24 hour café. Neither one of our lives have been ruined by its existence. I doubt it has even significantly impacted those in my area with extreme gambling addictions, because they were already gambling online and out of state long before the casino was built. The upside of having an actual legally licensed casino? Is that they are legally required to pay out a certain percentage rate (85% minimum in my state). They check IDs at the door. They have phone numbers listed all over the place for gambling addiction helplines and support groups. Placards everywhere reminding you to “play responsibly”. Etc.

“Ethical?” Nope. Probably not. But I could probably sit here all day listing various companies that I think are guilty of unethical business practices.

Since it seems fairly obvious that SG isn’t going to regulate themselves, and it seems highly unlikely that any laws will be passed to directly address the issue, the onus is pretty much on us to regulate ourselves. Which is why I insist on constantly pointing out just how bad the summoning odds really are in this game. Because in spite of popular forum belief that this is just “common knowledge” amongst the entire player base, it’s actually not.

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I would like to add education to that as well. If children are taught to think and to question, they are more likely to make more informed, rational decisions as adults. They will be more apt to poke around the small circles and such in this game to see what is under the hood.

Fully agree, what is legal is not necessarily ethical. As long as something is unregulated, folks will continue to make the system benefit themselves at others’ expense. Not all, of course, but greed is king for many.

Found this and I think it is a good primer for businesses to follow. It talks about ethical principles execs should incorporate into their day to day.

https://josephsononbusinessethics.com/2010/12/12-ethical-principles-for-business-executives/

Zynga is noted for questionable business practices. They have been in and out of court. Part of the SG/Zynga deal is predicated on SG’s performance the next 3 years.

2 + 2 = 4

IMHO. :smiley_cat:

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Right, forgot to include education.

As for Zynga being in court… and seeing all the posts on here from people saying they’re going to file lawsuits against the company… not sure how many of you guys remember? But back in December I think it was, they added an extra little clause to the ToS… all of us were forced to accept the terms in order to continue playing. I wonder how many actually paid attention to exactly what we were all agreeing to.

Well, I did at least.

:face_with_monocle:

Guess what? We all essentially agreed that we don’t have the right to sue them.

So… there is that. The company at least knows how to dot their i’s and cross their t’s when it comes to protecting themselves from legal consequences.

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LOL am I wearing off on you? :rofl:

As for culture up here … tobacco use did drop off considerably between 10-20 years ago but it is starting to pick up again. We have mandatory pictures on cigarette packages showing the dangers of smoking … somewhat graphically I’ll add. But I’m not convinced of their effectiveness. Young people are starting to think it’s “hip” again or something. At least it is on the rise amongst the younger demographics again.

In the same group drinking has dropped off considerably and for may been replaced by weed. I know many who will gladly have a toke but never touch alcohol (not all youngsters either). I guess I’m old school now. Ok Boomer. Still, even though it’s legal here the distribution network for weed is still the major bottleneck so the illicit suppliers are still going strong.

One problem with the pandemic I’ve noticed is there seems to be a shortage developing in scotch here. Now that is a tragedy :sob:

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As a sidebar, @Gryphonknight started a really fab thread re: the SG/Zynga relationship. May shed some light on the “why’s” of not only this thread, but others as well (thinking of the #nospend discussion.)

[Discussion, Roadmap] Did Zynga change SGG roadmap for Empires? or Delay roadmap - #30 by DeusNoctum

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:laughing:
It’s not just you, I’m surrounded by Aussies, Brits, and Canadians around here. I’d never use the “unnecessary U” when conversing with a mostly Murican audience. But this being an international forum and all…

Here, the youth seem to have given up on tobacco and replaced it with vaping.

And as for the weed vs. alcohol debate: personally? I actually prefer weed. But it’s not exactly fully legal in my area, and having any detectable amounts of it in your system can prevent you from being employable, so I stick to the perfectly legal and almost universally socially acceptable booze.

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By your descriptions of the gambling situation and weed situation we might be in the same area. It’s the same way for me. And if not it’s a pretty strange coincidence. I think you’re dead on with the regulation aspect. But I’m sorry to say I’ve pretty much lost faith in the way this society functions so I’m not optimistic about any real change being brought to fruition. I tend to agree with the people saying nospend won’t catch the fire needed. But it won’t stop me from trying to get people to unequivocally know what they are purchasing in this game. And that again goes back to transparency.

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Ohio here.

We have legal medicinal weed, which my girlfriend is actually eligible for but she doesn’t care for the stuff… makes her paranoid.

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Ahh. I’m PA. Exactly the same. Damn commonwealths.
Virtual neighbor wave.

As long as there are no regs, the transparency we seek will never exist. Not with the current business model and objectives.

It is up to us as consumers to make informed decisions. Some may not care; some may not be aware, but ultimately it will be up to us. If folks choose to seek out information, there are certainly a few people who are providing it.

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:wave:

I’m expecting weed to eventually be fully legal nationwide eventually, but even then… most of the jobs I’ve done require operating heavy machinery, and they tend to have zero tolerance policies with regards to illegal substances in your system. Alcohol is perfectly fine though, as long as you show up to work relatively sobered up.

Hence why I keep on pointing it out to those who may not be aware, the summoning odds are horribly low! I know some people think I’m just being negative and hating on the game or whatever. I’m just trying to help educate people who might not already be aware that this is, in fact, a gambling game. And not a “penny slot” type gambling game, either. If the summons only cost a few cents each? I wouldn’t be bothered by the odds.

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Why do you think i do something differently than you.
I suffer no delusions that this game is about ability. It’s all a casino. From the heroes you will get to the boards you will have rolled for you.

I don’t insinuate that the game is rigged. I just say that apart from choosing a team with the right counters to the team i am facing (if i was lucky enough to have those counters at all), there’s absolutely no ability at all guiding this game.Even if i choose the right moves in my 5x7 board of tiles so i can create a diamond, i have no idea or control on what tiles will come underneath.

The only thing this game needs from the player is tenacity to grind, persistence to await for item/troop/heroes rolls and luck to win. The percentage of ability this game needs is miniscule.

This point I will fully agree with you on. It doesn’t matter how skilled you are with the tiles if you’re not lucky (or wealthy) enough to have the right heroes.

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Because of this:

I acknowledge that there is rng in the starting boards but for me there is a great deal of skill involved in how I play those boards. If you disagree then fine, you do you.

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I already explained. Your ability is limited to any given 5x7 board YOU CAN SEE at any time.
After your move, you have no control on what comes beneath. It might be favorable on your formations or not.

Of course, if you move 3 tiles on one side, the other side doesn’t usually change, allowing you the illusion of board control. Usually after 3 tile matches, the board changes significantly, totally out of your control.

You still going on about this? I said, you do you. Agree to disagree, bud, your perception ain’t swaying me one bit.

I know how I play and I know how I do at it. And a lot of that is down to how I play the board. You have convinced me that you don’t get it so … move on.

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Skill comes into play assuming equal teams. But I gotta say… with my vanilla heroes? Going against the kinds of teams I’m usually facing? Unless I get good tiles early on, my team is dead before I have a chance to charge up a single special skill, let alone try to manipulate the tiles in my favor.

Of course that’s because I’m usually fighting above my weight class. :laughing: When it comes to equal team vs. equal team? Yeah, I can usually make the board work out in my favor even when it starts out less than favorably.

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Sure, there are times when it IS all luck. I am facing a 4600+ GTV all-HOTM team with my attack squad of 4xS1+Ariel at maybe 4100? Gotta hope for a great starting board there. Actually I’m currently 0 for ever in Telly+Vela defences. But hey – just maxed my Malosi so we’ll see.

But in general even fighting all non-S1 defenses up to 4400+ I can hold my own (as long as there’s no Telly-Vela). And that’s with generally 4xS1+Ariel because I don’t have a whole lot of non-S1 to choose from. And most of my attack teams include one or two emblemed 4*.

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Guys i go off topic but… can you please each one of you color your mug-avatar of a different color?

I have some troubles follow who said what :crazy_face:

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